Peter Burgess
New member
Or character assassination......Alex said:
Ogof Gofan
- Thread starter traff
- Start date
JohnMCooper
Member
My personal view is that a group going directly to the entrance would attract far less interest from all the passers by, whether climbers or fishermen, than a party wandering round for hours (and on several occasions). If you want to preserve caves don't go and find them in the first place!
ogof addict
Member
part of caving is about going to try and find the caves. what will it be next? all the Welsh caves having a big arrow towards them? or a brown tourist sign?
different people have different reasons for going caving, and sadly it always to see the natural beauty. some people do it for the adventure, to go places that most other "normal" people cant find/go to, to get to places very few people can find, because it is an extreme sport, because they like the dark, because it makes a change from urbex, because their friends do it, etc. and not all cavers do it for seeing pretty formations. there is something very appealing about mud, rock and squalor with not even a hint of calcite or gypsum for some people.
different people have different reasons for going caving, and sadly it always to see the natural beauty. some people do it for the adventure, to go places that most other "normal" people cant find/go to, to get to places very few people can find, because it is an extreme sport, because they like the dark, because it makes a change from urbex, because their friends do it, etc. and not all cavers do it for seeing pretty formations. there is something very appealing about mud, rock and squalor with not even a hint of calcite or gypsum for some people.
Peter Burgess
New member
If this post:
... then the consequence discussion might not have occurred. And then I and many others would not have started taking notice of a cave that might never have been brought to our attention so forcefully. How many others, like me, are now quite curious about this site?
I think those who responded wanting to keep this place low profile have shot themselves in the foot, regardless of how well intentioned all the responses might have been.
Had been answered by polite PM, rather than with this post:Muddy Funkster said:
NigR said:
... then the consequence discussion might not have occurred. And then I and many others would not have started taking notice of a cave that might never have been brought to our attention so forcefully. How many others, like me, are now quite curious about this site?
I think those who responded wanting to keep this place low profile have shot themselves in the foot, regardless of how well intentioned all the responses might have been.
Rhys
Moderator
Storm in a teacup.
The proposed article is probably unnecessary, but hardly anyone is likely to read it.
I doubt it'll make much difference to visitor numbers.
Let's get some perspective and calm down...
BTW. I've never been in Ogof Gofan, but I've walked the cliff directly above it a number of times. I have little doubt I could find it with a small bit of research. I'd probably get hold of a copy of the BBC documentary that visited the cave a year or two ago to get some clues...
The proposed article is probably unnecessary, but hardly anyone is likely to read it.
I doubt it'll make much difference to visitor numbers.
Let's get some perspective and calm down...
BTW. I've never been in Ogof Gofan, but I've walked the cliff directly above it a number of times. I have little doubt I could find it with a small bit of research. I'd probably get hold of a copy of the BBC documentary that visited the cave a year or two ago to get some clues...
TheBitterEnd
Well-known member
The first rule of Ogof Gofan is: don't mention Ogof Gofan
Oceanrower
Active member
Resurrecting an old thread I know, but.........
Seen this?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=609562
Seen this?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=609562
southpembscaver
New member
I'm wondering who thought it would be easier to carry a drill out to Saddle head than a couple of slings to utilise the stake and numerous lassoable blocks? 
The old iron stakes are all removed and someone has (probably with a bar) taken up anything that seemed loose. This has left very few possible belays and all produce bad rub points over several metres of the rope. The 10mm ss bolt has had the hanger and nut removed so the best back up was useless as I didn't have spares with me. A good bolt on the edge could protect against this very sharp rock and give a decent and secure hang.
If climbers have done this then they should realize caving and climbing use ropes very differently and leave cavers fixed aids alone ! After all it took some finding to discover the bolt.
If climbers have done this then they should realize caving and climbing use ropes very differently and leave cavers fixed aids alone ! After all it took some finding to discover the bolt.
Cambrian Caving Council are in the process of finalising an agreement with the MOD for access to Ogof Gofan and it is vital that nothing is done at the present time to place this in jeopardy.
Yes, there has been some recent misunderstanding concerning the placement of certain bolts but this has now been sorted out, hopefully to everyone's satisfaction, cavers and climbers alike. In future, NO more bolts will be placed anywhere on the Pembrokeshire sea cliffs by cavers and, if they are, they WILL be removed (by cavers too!). The bolts already in place at Ogof Gofan are being allowed to remain in situ but you will need to take your own hangers (or contact Stuart France for details of how to borrow some).
I am sure an official announcement will be forthcoming in due course but this should suffice for now. If anyone requires further information, best bet is to either get in touch with Stuart directly or send me a PM.
Yes, there has been some recent misunderstanding concerning the placement of certain bolts but this has now been sorted out, hopefully to everyone's satisfaction, cavers and climbers alike. In future, NO more bolts will be placed anywhere on the Pembrokeshire sea cliffs by cavers and, if they are, they WILL be removed (by cavers too!). The bolts already in place at Ogof Gofan are being allowed to remain in situ but you will need to take your own hangers (or contact Stuart France for details of how to borrow some).
I am sure an official announcement will be forthcoming in due course but this should suffice for now. If anyone requires further information, best bet is to either get in touch with Stuart directly or send me a PM.
Stuart France
Active member
Following a meeting between myself on behalf of cavers with the other interested parties ? landowner Defence Infrastructure Organisation and the National Park Authority and NRW professional staff - we now have an interim cave access agreement for Ogof Gofan. In a nutshell, interested cavers should contact me first by email or phone ideally to discuss their plans, hear about any recent issues or changes to the system, learn how to find the cave itself and what gear to take, if such information is needed. I will then pass their request on to the National Park Ranger who will issue one-off permits most likely by email.
Park at the St Govan?s Chapel car park. This is only accessible when the range is not in use for firing practice, i.e. weekends, evenings, and some days midweek. To avoid disappointment, is advisable to call the range office to check on upcoming closures for live firing before travelling there midweek.
Please take clean equipment and oversuit. No digging in the cave. No removal of samples or artefacts from the cave. No new bolts or other fixtures to be placed. No novices and maximum group size of four. Only one such group in the cave at a time. No military debris to be touched nor walking further inland than the coastal path.
If everyone will please operate this simple system, we stand a very good chance of obtaining a favourable long-term access agreement which will take a little longer as there are documents to be drawn up, and some committees and approvals to clear.
Stuart France
Cambrian Caving Council
Access/Conservation Officer
Park at the St Govan?s Chapel car park. This is only accessible when the range is not in use for firing practice, i.e. weekends, evenings, and some days midweek. To avoid disappointment, is advisable to call the range office to check on upcoming closures for live firing before travelling there midweek.
Please take clean equipment and oversuit. No digging in the cave. No removal of samples or artefacts from the cave. No new bolts or other fixtures to be placed. No novices and maximum group size of four. Only one such group in the cave at a time. No military debris to be touched nor walking further inland than the coastal path.
If everyone will please operate this simple system, we stand a very good chance of obtaining a favourable long-term access agreement which will take a little longer as there are documents to be drawn up, and some committees and approvals to clear.
Stuart France
Cambrian Caving Council
Access/Conservation Officer
Stuart France
Active member
A review meeting has taken place last week with the national park staff. There has also been the annual Range Meeting with army staff, the DIO land agent and other stakeholders attending. The Ogof Gofan access system outlined in my earlier post has clearly been working in 2015 to everyone's satisfaction and it should be renewed for 2016 on the same terms once it clears some formal committee approvals.
We have been asked to help get a professional bat survey organised during the coming winter and it is hoped that DIO can fund the work.
A small number of cave prospecting visits have been made into Range West this year. To enter RW you need to attend a health and safety briefing meeting where the site rules and safety precautions are explained. You then get onto the approved persons list. The first time you visit RW you must take your passport to the Gatehouse and be issued with a photo permit. On later occasions you simply ask for your previous permit to be re-issued. You wear the permit badge while exploring on the RW area and hand it back to the gatehouse at the end of the day to sign out. It is as simple as that. The permit is specifically for looking for new caves, and not to enter them without explicit consent from the landowner, not for BBQs, not for walking the dog etc.
I can tell you that it is all very interesting on RW with lots of 100m limestone cliffs in pristine condition. There are the biggest fossils I have seen in my life. We haven't found any caves yet, but it obviously has potential. The next H&S briefings run between Feb 2016 and May 2016 and once you are "approved" then your clearance will last until May 2017. Anyone who got approved during 2015 has clearance until May 2016. I'll type up the briefings dates etc and post it later along with a few pics of RW.
Stuart France
Cambrian Caving Council
Access/Conservation Officer
We have been asked to help get a professional bat survey organised during the coming winter and it is hoped that DIO can fund the work.
A small number of cave prospecting visits have been made into Range West this year. To enter RW you need to attend a health and safety briefing meeting where the site rules and safety precautions are explained. You then get onto the approved persons list. The first time you visit RW you must take your passport to the Gatehouse and be issued with a photo permit. On later occasions you simply ask for your previous permit to be re-issued. You wear the permit badge while exploring on the RW area and hand it back to the gatehouse at the end of the day to sign out. It is as simple as that. The permit is specifically for looking for new caves, and not to enter them without explicit consent from the landowner, not for BBQs, not for walking the dog etc.
I can tell you that it is all very interesting on RW with lots of 100m limestone cliffs in pristine condition. There are the biggest fossils I have seen in my life. We haven't found any caves yet, but it obviously has potential. The next H&S briefings run between Feb 2016 and May 2016 and once you are "approved" then your clearance will last until May 2017. Anyone who got approved during 2015 has clearance until May 2016. I'll type up the briefings dates etc and post it later along with a few pics of RW.
Stuart France
Cambrian Caving Council
Access/Conservation Officer
Stuart France
Active member
Well I suppose a photo driving licence would be acceptable ID too.
Range West is just a teeny bit different from your average limestone hill. MOD and their partners fire a million pieces of ordnance a year here ranging from plain vanilla bullets to much bigger stuff.
It's not surprising is it, in this day and age, that security and safety is paramount in our host's thinking, and we are grateful to DIO (the land management part of MOD) that we have been given a welcome when there is no official business going on, subject to some pretty obvious T&Cs.
Range West is just a teeny bit different from your average limestone hill. MOD and their partners fire a million pieces of ordnance a year here ranging from plain vanilla bullets to much bigger stuff.
It's not surprising is it, in this day and age, that security and safety is paramount in our host's thinking, and we are grateful to DIO (the land management part of MOD) that we have been given a welcome when there is no official business going on, subject to some pretty obvious T&Cs.
cap n chris
Well-known member
bograt said:
You are embarrassing yourself by showing how out of touch you are. Try caving in Spain in a national park sometime.
