State of Play in the BCA

[pwhole]

As a Regional Officer (DCA) and Club Officer (TSG), and with not much time to post, I have to say that although there's often a lot of work involved, it's almost always enjoyable work, not least as it generally improves a particular situation (like repairing/stabilising entrances, bolting, etc.), disseminates very useful information to other enthusiasts, and often gains cavers access to sites that previously had no, or ambiguous access. Also you get to meet or contact people outside caving who might be able to move things forward for cavers, and often they're people you probably wouldn't have got to meet if you weren't an Officer of a Regional Council.

We (DCA) also have an Underground Conservation Forum which (technically at least) allows contact with many statutory bodies to discuss caving and its implications for the wider environment. So there's a lot to be said for being involved, locally or nationally, and I would recommend that people do get involved, especially in BCA as we need a national body of some sort. However, I can't take any more jobs on!

Also, I tend to view underground exploration overall as 'physical science', as opposed to 'sport', if that helps

 

[GarDouth]

Being involved with the BCA was sadly one of the worst experiences I have ever had in my caving life.

For years I have tried to do my best for the caving community and been involved in several committees of various types and some have been more challenging than others but the BCA by far tops that list of being the most difficult. After I left (was pushed?) I lost a lot of love for the community and caving in general. The organisation, or rather some of the people in it, sucked all my enthusiasm out and I know I wasn't the only one.

For me, the most important thing for any committee - and I've seen it again recently - is that people need to know when their time is up. It's really bad to have committee members who have been at the sharp end of decision making for years or decades and totally unaware of the negative impact they are having.

There is no shortage of people who want to help and have some great ideas but they don't because the 'old guard' (I hate that term) are totally unwilling to embrace change and modernisation. Constant negativity and criticism of others was rife during my time in BCA - and from people who had no better ideas themselves and couldn't find positivity in anything.

The BCA must embrace change, new ideas, new people and accept that the organisation is run for the cavers of the UK and NOT, yes NOT for those who haven't been underground for 20 years.

 

[JoshW]

My more recent experience of BCA hasn’t necessarily been one of a toxic atmosphere as described above but generally one of aimless apathy, with the exception of a couple of volunteers.

I’m not sure if this is better or worse.

 

[Ian Ball]

Who are the old guard?

 

[mikem]

They were mostly replaced several years ago. Latest minutes show tenure:

https://british-caving.org.uk/documents/council-minutes-feb-2022-3

 

[2xw]

I was threatened, blackmailed, sent abuse and had dodgy items posted to my work address when I was volunteering for the BCA and those people are still on council. Despite high words above, those people were helped and harboured.

To anybody thinking of volunteering - it's not worth it. There are a million more caving related things you can do with your time that will be more meaningful, impactful and fulfilling.

 

[Martin Laverty]

I was threatened, blackmailed, sent abuse and had dodgy items posted to my work address when I was volunteering for the BCA and those people are still on council. Despite high words above, those people were helped and harboured.

To anybody thinking of volunteering - it's not worth it. There are a million more caving related things you can do with your time that will be more meaningful, impactful and fulfilling.

Who are 'those people' ? If they and their apologists did what you say then they should be exposed to stop the rot surely?

 

[mikem]

There were apparently some major personality / ideology clashes. Josh is still on council so listen to him, but unsurprisingly most are just ticking over / not wanting to upset the apple cart.

 

[Ian Ball]

I was threatened, blackmailed, sent abuse and had dodgy items posted to my work address when I was volunteering for the BCA and those people are still on council. Despite high words above, those people were helped and harboured.

To anybody thinking of volunteering - it's not worth it. There are a million more caving related things you can do with your time that will be more meaningful, impactful and fulfilling.

The people who threatened, blackmailed, abused and sent dodgy stuff to your work are still on the BCA council?

 

[ChrisJC]

There was a similar situation in the Land Rover Series II club recently (of which I am a member). It came to a head pretty quickly, was exceptionally disruptive and nearly brought closure to the club. Fortunately however, an almost entirely new executive came forward, and the club is now moving forwards again.

What would happen if a parallel organisation was set up, and the old one allowed to wither on the vine?

It happens in open source software all the time, and works pretty well! (although emotions are exercised at the time).;

Chris.

 

[andrewmcleod]

There was a similar situation in the Land Rover Series II club recently (of which I am a member). It came to a head pretty quickly, was exceptionally disruptive and nearly brought closure to the club. Fortunately however, an almost entirely new executive came forward, and the club is now moving forwards again.

What would happen if a parallel organisation was set up, and the old one allowed to wither on the vine?

It happens in open source software all the time, and works pretty well! (although emotions are exercised at the time).;

Chris.

There's really no need for a parallel organisation. It's not like the BCA are turning away volunteers. If a group of people wanted to organise a coup, they'd probably be welcomed in to most positions.

Anyone want to be COG convenor? I've done a terrible job so far this year - Josh is entirely accurate with the 'aimless apathy' problem and I am part of that, but mostly because I have been very busy and haven't found time for that or all the other caving organising things I am supposed to be doing.

 

[BCA Chair]

There's really no need for a parallel organisation. It's not like the BCA are turning away volunteers. If a group of people wanted to organise a coup, they'd probably be welcomed in to most positions.

Anyone want to be COG convenor? I've done a terrible job so far this year - Josh is entirely accurate with the 'aimless apathy' problem and I am part of that, but mostly because I have been very busy and haven't found time for that or all the other caving organising things I am supposed to be doing.

Don't be too hard on yourself Andrew, the work you have managed to undertake to date has been much appreciated but the reality of holding down a full time job and finding time for voluntary work is a fine balance.
My working life mantra to establish priorities was 1. Work. 2. Family. 3 Play. 1 & 2 are interchangeable depending upon demands; 3 Play comes a distant third in priorities and includes caving in its widest sense. So, anyone volunteering to help BCA has my utmost respect and support for the time they dedicate and the contribution they make to the benefit of the whole caving community.

 

[JoshW]

There's really no need for a parallel organisation. It's not like the BCA are turning away volunteers. If a group of people wanted to organise a coup, they'd probably be welcomed in to most positions.

Anyone want to be COG convenor? I've done a terrible job so far this year - Josh is entirely accurate with the 'aimless apathy' problem and I am part of that, but mostly because I have been very busy and haven't found time for that or all the other caving organising things I am supposed to be doing.

Honestly the aimless apathy starts from the top, with an engaged and enthusiastic top role the rest of the roles follow

 

[mikem]

It does need to work both ways though.

You will never get a totally balanced view on this forum (or in fact most others), because certain sections of the community won't engage with it, due to various historical reasons.

 

[aricooperdavis]

Katie, the BCA's hard-working paid membership secretary who does all of the administrative work associated with membership, has been following along with the thread (hi Katie!) and has given some details about how many of our members we hold contact details for. I won't go into exact numbers, but:

• We have ~1000 members who join directly, of which we have
  • postal addresses for every one of them, and
  • email addresses for ~99% of them (Katie suspects that the very few we don't have email addresses for probably don't have email addresses)
• We have ~5500 members who join via their club, of which we have
  • postal addresses for pretty much all of them (a few give us their club secretaries address, for example if they live abroad)
  • email addresses for ~87% of them. This is improving year on year. Katie thinks the missing ~13% are broadly from a few clubs who still have concerns that they can't share this information with us.

I think these are pretty good numbers, in terms of being able to contact our members.

The BCA does need to update its Privacy Policy (any volunteers?), but we do follow the guiding principles of GDPR: only processing the data that we actually need, not sharing it with third parties, doing so reasonably securely, keeping it up to date, and disposing of it when it is no longer needed. Short of needing to improve how we document and communicate this to our members, I think most concerns from clubs over GDPR are unfounded.

I can fairly say that I have never received any unwanted communication from the BCA (although when Phil was Chair he kept me pretty busy, as a good chair should, so I did wince slightly whenever I saw a new email from him!).

 

[Ian Ball]

Decent data KE & ACD
Thank you.

 

[Fjell]

If I compare the current situation with CNCC and BCA with the now dim past of CNCC and NCA, then in my view it is a dramatic improvement. There seems to be an attitude of actually trying to let people go caving, which I am sure the youth of today would probably not credit would be otherwise, but it certainly seemed that way at the time.

I now actually pay the BCA subs directly and even book CNCC permits. I don’t really have to do this, but things have really improved and there is in my view finally an acceptable approach to things like access in the Dales. There are still a few issues, but not very many.

The other main thing that seems to be a step forward is students organising their own thing. If you want a supply of long-term cavers that would seem a very good place to invest more of BCA’s dwarfish gold hoard.