Thistle Pot Lost

[pwhole]

After a visit today with John Gunn, it can be confirmed that Thistle Pot is no more - buried under tons of dirt. Me and Scud caught them at it a few years ago, and it appeared that it may have stopped for a while, but it's certainly gone now - just a few nettles mark the spot, and some funny-looking grass where the small valley used to be. Contrary to rumour, we still haven't managed to find evidence of a rumoured dye-trace, but I have the relevant TSG logbook available that covers the digging period, I just can't face ploughing through it just yet.

 

[Pitlamp]

Your mention of a "rumoured" dye trace prompted me to look in Dave Elliot's 1975 publication "The Caves of Northern Derbyshire, Part 1: Eldon Hill" This gives references:

1967 T D Ford. Caves of Derbyshire (Dalesman) p 80.
1966 A R Jarratt. Cave Scence 39 p 383
1973 D Elliot. Speleogation records

Pretty sure the first one is unlikely to be helpful re water tracing.

The second of these is a British Speleological Association publication, produced to a high standard. As Jayrat was the author I presume this will refer to the work of the Pegasus. This may be worth looking up for info on water tracing.

I can probably get at this reference without disproportionate effort so (pwhole) if you wat me to take a look for you, email me diirectly.

The third one, "Speleogation records" - is intriguing. Throughout the five volumes of Dave Elliot's guides this collection is frequently referred to. I suspect these were privately owned between a few cavers based at the time in the Manchester area. But they may contain all sorts of useful information. Does anyone know where they are located?

 

[mikem]

A similar case that also led to speleogation (it seems to be the only other online reference), unfortunately too late to ask him now: https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?threads/cockshead-mine-covered-over-filled-in.13591/

 

[Pitlamp]

Indeed; sadly Dave passed away in 2019. Just thought someone on here might know what happened to this potentially valuable resource.

 

[Pipster]

That's terrible! Is that "allowed" to happen? Is there not some form of protection for natural heritage like this - isn't it inside the national park?

I understand covering a shaft like this (which would atleast preserve it), but completely filling it and burying it is a different matter.

 

[pwhole]

It's outside the SSSI, which is the main reason they're doing it. That whole area between Wham Rake/Portaway/Conies Dale is a shithole, with dumped road spoil and the like tipped all over the place. I don't understand their 'logic', other than: "I have a big machine. I like to drive big machine." It's certainly got nothing to do with farming. When we found them 'landscaping' Thistle a few years ago, I got in touch with the Peak Park, and they said they would have a word, which I suspect they did, as nothing moved for a while. But last time i mailed my contact I heard nothing back, so maybe they've moved on.

 

[pwhole]

Here's a photo from 2014, when it was still relatively untouched, followed by three from 2020, when we caught them at it, and finally one from last Thursday (that photo by John Gunn). All of this is visible on the most recent iteration of Google Earth, though it's clearly not that recent. At the gateway into the Jowle Grove/Watts Grove compound, a large pile of rubbish can be seen on GE - this was random lumps of tarmac/ concrete and house bricks. This pile is now gone, presumably into the Thistle depression too.

 

[RobinGriffiths]

So what's happenning? Are they just blocking holes with adjacent material, or are they disposing rubbish from elsewehere? If later, which house bricks and tarmac suggest - presumably they'd need a license.

 

[pwhole]

A few years ago I saw some fresh holes being dug over the wall from the Hazard Mine field, on Wham Rake, and soil was piled high from those. Some of the material we saw the other day looked like compost rather than soil, and is very dark, almost black. For some reason they seem to feel the need to fill in shallow shakeholes, which serves no safety purpose as much of it isn't even public access. They may have permission, I dunno, I'm still trying to work out what's going on, but it's been going on for a while. Have emailed my contact at the Peak Park again anyway, as it seems like theyr'e the best-placed authority to comment on the land here.

 

[Tritim230]

Very sad affair. Great photo record

 

[Stoney Boy]

If you read back through the old Pegasus archives they contacted the Peak Park when Hollandtwine was still intact (there is in fact a picture of the shaft top)..that didn't end well either....

 

[pwhole]

Here's a shot from last week (taken from Oxlow Rake) of two of these very large piles of 'dark materials' near the Portaway Pit. When I walked around the piles nearer Eldon Quarry, the bits I saw looked like compost, but I didn't get to give it a close inspection, and compost is a rather odd material to be using to fill natural holes - that don't need filling. The right-hand pile appears to be within the Portawaw Mine SSSI zone.

 

[Stoney Boy]

I walked up there last Sunday. There's a lot of plastic material in the material that is being used to fill things in.