'What if' or 'Shit happens'

[Alex]

I have had a similar situation on a through trip in Ease gill where there was meant to be down an insitu ladder to get down to a ledge in white line, however someone had removed this and instead placed an an SRT rope there instead. I had no choice (other than turn back of course) then to use an italian hitch on a belay belt. Not comfortable or recommend (As the belts are no longer regarded as PPE) but I got to the bottom safely.

 

[JasonC]

Italian hitch. You only need one krab. Nice and simple.

Ah... good point.                Should have thought of that  :-[

 

[Fulk]

Like bograt, I messed with prusik loops (including Eldon Hole) and crossed krabs back in the seventies; they both work, but as bograt implies, you have to be jolly careful how you use them.

What's wrong with borrowing someone else's descender, Jason? If it's a free-hanging pitch you should be able to get one back up (communications allowing)?

 

[Roger W]

Just don't do what I did many years ago and rely on hand grip alone.

It's too painful!   

 

[bograt]

Just don't do what I did many years ago and rely on hand grip alone.

It's too painful!   

Silly Boy, at least thread it round your leg, then all you've got to lose is your balls!! (Bin There, Done That)

 

[JasonC]

What's wrong with borrowing someone else's descender, Jason? If it's a free-hanging pitch you should be able to get one back up (communications allowing)?

Yes, obviously I'd that do that for preference - I was just thinking what DIY options were available if all else failed

 

[Amy]

Clipping a bunch of carabiners together like a "rack" doesn't work all so well. There was a decent device basically that which was invented decades ago. Turned out to be rather unsafe. Rightfully, they never caught on.

 

[caving_fox]

The really fun part of your scenario is when the Croll gets stuck. This is a problem no matter how many backups you have, since you can't remove your Croll without taking off your harness, which is obviously crazy-dangerous -- but has been done, as this classic caving tale relates

Tall people often (sometimes) have the croll on a maillon anyway. I do. It shifts the balance point up a bit. And hence if really necessary will make it easy to remove. Yes I'm sacrificing 2inches of vertical movement, but it's more comfortable.

 

[Fulk]

Interesting  point, caving_fox.

It reminds me of when I used to use cloggers in the 70s or some such time. Cloggers were a bit like modern hand-jammers, but they had a cunning design feature; the bottom hole was situated in such a way that a krab or MR in there would allow sufficient movement of the cam to operate, but would stop it moving so far that it could come out by accident. Which was all very well until you reached the top of the pitch (or worse still a rebelay). In order to get the jammer off the rope, you had to remove the krab/MR, and then take the clogger off the rope (with the concomitant possibility of dropping the damn thing down the pitch. While that wasn't too bad for a foot-jammer, it could be a bit of a nightmare if you were using one as a chest jammer.

 

[Les W]

Didn't they also randomly break in half for no good reason...  :-\

 

[bograt]

Never heard of it happening with a Croll, you may be thinking of the Jumar, a die cast body that was inclined to suffer hairline cracks if mistreated and consequently break unexpectedly

 

[Les W]

Never heard of it happening with a Croll, you may be thinking of the Jumar, a die cast body that was inclined to suffer hairline cracks if mistreated and consequently break unexpectedly

I wasn't talking about a Croll, it was a Clogger that was mentioned.
Although now you mention it, it was probably the Jumar I was thinking of...

 

[bograt]

Duh, my brains going as well , wasn't the Clogger a predecessor of the Croll, pressed steel, made by Petzl? they put a bend in the attachment points so it fitted more snugly on the chest and called it a Croll. (or have I pickled more brain cells than I thought?)

 

[Fulk]

Cloggers were British made, but I guess in their basic shape they could have been the forerunner (?) of all jammers such as the Petzl hand-jammer and Croll.

 

[bograt]

Aah, something stirs in the depths of the old grey matter, something about a climbing gear manufacturer from North Wales, (Clogwyn), or is that another Boggy Fantasy??

 

[Fulk]

Hence the name, bograt!

By the way, does anyone else have a problem with the spell-checker on this site? e.g., it wouldn't allow me at first to write 'bograt' but changed it to 'bog rat' . . . my typing's bad enough without having to cope with some stupid ghost in the machine.

 

[bograt]

Thanks for that implied confidence in my demented memory Fulk! ,

Heres another one;
One of them, either Clog or Petzl, had a grooved cam, as opposed to the dimpled one that came later, totally useless when they were "cacked up" on a muddy nylon hawserlay climbing rope. I admit I needed assistance to get up a deep mine shaft on the Great Orme because the bloody things just would not grip!!
I hasten to add that it was not a callout, my team had it sorted and the hauling team consisted of 4 admirable ladies and two males, Special Thanks to Liz Taylor for that one!

Forgot to mention, whilst this was going on, someone decided to test how deep the shaft was by the traditional method, even small pebbles make a disconcerting sound as they pass by your ears after about 300ft!

P.S. We entered the shaft partway down through the climbing shaft entrance, I was the mug sent down the bottom half of the engine shaft looking for the sough.

 

[paul]

Didn't they also randomly break in half for no good reason...  :-\

I never heard fo the happening with Cloggers. Jumars certainly were prone to fracturing and were often backed-up with some nylon tape wrapped around the frame.