winnats Head survey?

alastairgott

Well-known member
Wardy, yep that?s me don?t worry spanset are still in my mind. I?ve got a candidate for you. Pegasus was just going to clarify a fine point with you.

I?ve got Wednesday Thursday off this week for revision for an exam. I could pop over briefly for a break, Aston way is about 30mins away.
 

Wardy

Active member
Hi Alastair
Thursday works for me, so if you want to let me know what time suits you - 16.00 may be good?
Pete
 

pwhole

Well-known member
We had a fun TSG trip down Winnats Head today - ten of us I believe. This time I was specifically sniffing out mineral, and there was plenty, once we started looking properly. I found decent-sized lumps of galena in virtually every section of every boulder choke down to the main sump pool, and large amounts of other vein and pipe mineral (especially whorled baryte), both on the floor and still in the walls - several small veins cut through the cavern walls. Lots of blue or black fluorite and some lovely lilac pieces. On the left wall of the approach passage into Down in the Sewer is a large panel of orange fluorite cubes, many well over an inch across. No evidence of mining anywhere, other than the apparent tailings everywhere - however, the field to the west (which also sits above the top of the 'up' pitches) is full of hillocks and hollows, so maybe that was where Winnats Head Grove was, and they were mining the extensions of the veins seen inside Winnats Head? Maybe we are just seeing naturally-smashed vein from a major shake event that also collapsed the cavern, but the whole site is somewhat baffling - I love it.

The vein traversing the roof of the main sump pool is almost exactly E-W, according to my handheld compass, which may not be that accurate. So it has the potential at least to be developed on the same cavernous fault as Halfway House Series/Longcliffe, which is admittedly more NW-SE and would cross the road in Winnats Pass twice to reach WH - but hey, the road wasn't there then, and arguably neither was Winnats Pass ;)
 

pwhole

Well-known member
Actually, looking at the Survex model again, if the splay across the sump pool was central, then the vein is pretty much NW/SE.
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
It was a great trip, I will definitely be back not least to follow up on the surveying with SUSS, but also to continue looking at the lead "No Pete-ons".
 

SamT

Moderator
So - who's on for pumping the sump then??

Two options

- either large generator on surface (in field above the cliff above entrance) i.e. accessible with landrover/trailer.  100m of cable run down through cave, some hefty pumps in the sump.

- or, digging project just the other side of the sewer.  sink shaft in what looks like easy rubble digging.  Might actually go somewhere,  and if lower than level of sump.  Siphon over from sump into dig.  Max depth though is 10m due to damned physics.

 

alastairgott

Well-known member
I think the prospects are in the floor beyond the sewer. (Or that?s where Pete told me to look!)

Went in with a crowbar to have a look at where the water sinks beyond the sewer. As sam says very promising and fair digging.

Beyond where the water sinks and the rope is a rift in the floor on the right. I?d be interested in taking a pipe and directing the water from the sump straight down this rift to see if it can be washed out.

So both where the water sinks and where the rift is are interesting. If you can extend either then you may be able to drop the sump a little. But the prospects where the water is sinking is probably more interesting.
 

Rob

Well-known member
alastairgott said:
....the prospects where the water is sinking is probably more interesting.
Maybe, but as long as you don't see the syphoned water in the lower pitches. Easy to test in one trip  (y)
 

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SamT

Moderator
I think where ever you dig in that chamber, just beyond is the sewer is all going to the same place.  Personally, I'd prefer a dryer dig, in the far left corner of the rift, looking from the sewer, where the rubble looks very easy to dig, with two solid walls for pinning scaff into.  Feel pretty confident that the water will all be sinking into the same place.

Even if the water from the big sump cant entirely be emptied.  lowering by a good few meters might make it a bit easier for the divers to push into it, as the'd be at a much shallower depth.

Vis is a major problem at the bottom since everything is silted up.
 

Wardy

Active member
in reply to Robs comment re the water re appearing, I spent quite a significant amount of time checking that lower streamy to see if it re appeared and could find no evidence.
As only one streamway has been tested and that is the one going through the sewer I suggested it got re tested and as you say it would be easy to see if the join up prior to sump level.
As pwhole points out it is a very interesting place and I can't wait to hear of progress.
Pete
 

SamT

Moderator
Wardy said:
in reply to Robs comment re the water re appearing, I spent quite a significant amount of time checking that lower streamy to see if it re appeared and could find no evidence.
As only one streamway has been tested and that is the one going through the sewer I suggested it got re tested and as you say it would be easy to see if the join up prior to sump level.
As pwhole points out it is a very interesting place and I can't wait to hear of progress.
Pete

So the water falling down the pitches, and into the lowest sump was never dye tested.

Only the water trickling through the Sewer and into sinking just the other side??

:blink:

I mean we all know it'll most likely end up in whirlpool rising. but you never know.
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
Wardy explained the circumstances when I saw him the other week. and we discussed that it probably needed a retest with the two colours of dye thrown into the two outlets, so the line from WHC (between p12 and BJC) probably needs re-doing. (still I wouldn't sniff at 766.66m straight line to whirlpool rising, under Rowter hole).


I'm keen to help repair the circumstances which led to the dye test, which is why I really want this to be a fully inclusive project.
 

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pwhole

Well-known member
That diagram is definitely gonna need an update soon. There's a few new routes appeared since 1991 ;)
 

pwhole

Well-known member
An interesting one is that Peakshole Sough wasn't then classified as an outlet, which we now know is, and quite a peculiar one as the water's coming into the passage near the tail, rather than the inner end, as one would expect from a sough. It's hopeless at that job. This water comes upwards, in the floor near the exit. The water falling down from the roof at the blue vein junction I suspect is direct percolation from the Goosehill fields, but the input from the floor is definitely not.
 

benshannon

Active member
Hey guys, some nav help please.

I went down Winnats again today. Where on earth is the harpur hill series? I went into an ascending phreatic tube on the right coming done Cornwall avenue bit it didnt seem to go anywhere so my only other thinking is it's in the boulder choke somewhere in fox chamber? I can't find a survey any where with the HH series on so any help would be gratefully received.
 

Goydenman

Well-known member
benshannon said:
Hey guys, some nav help please.

I went down Winnats again today. Where on earth is the harpur hill series? I went into an ascending phreatic tube on the right coming done Cornwall avenue bit it didnt seem to go anywhere so my only other thinking is it's in the boulder choke somewhere in fox chamber? I can't find a survey any where with the HH series on so any help would be gratefully received.
Part way down Cornwall Avenue on the right. Traverse out using two bedding planes almost into Fox chamber easily then make awkward move over boulder and squeeze into passage that open out...Harper Hill Series
 
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