Author Topic: Novice cavers  (Read 4795 times)

angelmaz11

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« on: October 12, 2005, 12:08:55 am »
Hello everyone,

We are going to be taking lots of freshers down to burrington comb this saturday and swildon's on sunday - any idea whether it'll be busy down there?

Thanks
M
xx

Offline SamT

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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2005, 10:33:35 am »
Well - it will be now your taking lots of novices and freshers.  :lol:

Offline Cap'n Chris

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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2005, 10:37:19 am »
A) Yes (`cos you'll be there).
B) Depends what your definition of "Busy" is.
C) Even when busy Goatchurch and Swildon's Hole are easily capable of accommodating a lot of cavers.

How many of you are there?

andymorgan

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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2005, 03:06:17 pm »
Depends what caves you do in Burrington: Lionels Hole is never that busy (although it probably isn't suitable for complete novices).
I think both the Combe and Swildon's will be busy in the next few weeks as a few unis will probably have their freshers trips there.

cucc Paul

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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2005, 03:26:23 pm »
On this note cucc will have a lot of freshers down same weekend... I believe swildons is a planned trip on the saturday... I will advise them not to go down on sunday otherwise we'll have two big freshers, newbies trips down there

cucc Paul

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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2005, 03:30:31 pm »
Is the air in swildons still abit iffy down at sump one or has it been flushed out with this wet weather... Nice n wet down swildons i hope for the weekend it'll be our freshers first true wet trip

Offline Cap'n Chris

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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2005, 06:17:04 pm »
Just got back from a trip to Sump 1 in Swildon's from 3:40pm-5:00pm, Weds 12th Oct 05; the air is crap - the worst I've experienced. Despite the heavy rain the stream was still low (this may change if we have heavy persistent rain throughout the next couple of days although I do not believe that is what the forecast has predicted).

It took 25mins to get to sump 1 and then 50mins to return; exertion results in heavy breathing and slow progress - I developed a headache which persisted for over half an hour after leaving the cave (first time this has happened); given the monitoring done down this cave throughout the summer I would reckon the CO2 in SH is over 3% at present. Didn't go through the sump so don't know what it's like beyond.

Let's hope for LOADS of rain and for it to flush through.

Keep an eye on things - slow trips are still going to be achievable but you might want to think twice before taking anyone suffering from asthma into SH. If you do visit, let us know what you reckon to the air.

Offline Stupot

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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2005, 07:17:41 pm »
Been working on Mendip today and we have had a SHIT load of rain as my soggy pants will tell you, a few more days like today will do the underground a world of good.

Stu.
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Offline graham

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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2005, 08:22:17 pm »
Gentlemen, I have been told about some research that may indicate where the problems lie.

I cannot say much about this ATM as I haven't seen the typescript yet, but there are a couple of interesting points coming out:

The problem, which is probably a pollution issue, does appear to be temperature dependant and should get better when winter temperatures arrive.

Secondly, don't expect the situation to improve with the rain: the data (I haven't seen it yet, don't forget) seems to indicate that there could be a CO2 spike just after a high water event.

More to follow when I have the typescript.

Hum, should I copy this into the Bad Air thread?
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Offline Cap'n Chris

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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2005, 11:51:02 am »
Quote
Been working on Mendip today and we have had a SHIT load of rain as my soggy pants will tell you, a few more days like today will do the underground a world of good.

Stu.



But today is sunny and tomorrow is expected to be similar so Swildon's Hole won't have high water and the problem will remain (point taken, BTW, Graham; it's to do with ozone, isn't it?).

The poor air shouldn't stop you from having a trip down the cave but if anyone's unfit I wouldn't take them beyond the 20' - and keep an eye on anyone with a breathing condition/coughs etc..

I'd reckon based on my previous monitoring of the poor air in SH that the CO2 level is in excess of 3%. Graham, can we get Dr. B. to do another quick draeger test run? (I've got a brand new heavy duty ladder so he shouldn't be worried).

cucc Paul

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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2005, 07:21:45 pm »
Thanks Chris...

Offline Cap'n Chris

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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2005, 07:26:40 pm »
You're welcome. Sorry it's not ALL SYSTEMS GREEN FOR GO, WATER-A-PLENTY IN A SWILDON'S WHITEOUT WONDERLAND OF WATERY FUN! but, hey, there's always another day....

I'm getting all twitchy waiting for some wetter conditions, too, you know! Having purchased a neofleece I'm keen to try it out!

Offline graham

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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2005, 07:59:31 pm »
Quote from: "cap 'n chris"
... BTW, Graham; it's to do with ozone, isn't it? ...


No mate, that does not seem to be implicated by this research.
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Offline Cap'n Chris

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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2005, 07:45:41 am »
Oh! In that case it's probably got something to do with complicated words, chemical formulae, graphs and lots of references and footnotes.
 :wink:

andymorgan

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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2005, 12:32:10 pm »
As it temperature dependant would I be right in assuming it is a result of a chemical reaction or microbial activity caused by, or interacting with the pollutant?

Is the transcript being published somewhere?

cucc Paul

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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2005, 03:18:38 pm »
I done a quick flick the gist or irregularities tends to do witht he equilibrim of carboxylic acid from water and bio stuff in the soil and the concetration of carbon dioxide in the air... in english

Higher temperatures more carbon dioxide in the air and less in the water as acid... Lower temperature more carbon dioxide in the water as acid and less in the air...

I think thats right any how

angelmaz11

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« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2005, 03:23:11 pm »
Hello,

Thanks for all the good info.
We are taking 11 complete novices. So for the saturday it's our usual Sidcot and Goatchurch tour. On the sunday I will take note of the bad air. What CO2 % is normal, since 3% is high? We do indeed have some with Asthma and one guy has a cold, so I will advice them to go absolutely no further than double pots or before 20ft?

Thanks and might see u there!

Marion

andymorgan

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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2005, 03:31:03 pm »
The usual atmospheric concentration is 0.03% so is a fair bit lower than 3%!
   There tends to be a bit of CO2 build up in the upper part of the cave so you may experience it before the pots. It may be fine when you go, so you wont know until you go down there. If anyone is noticing any effects head straight out.

What time are you in Sidcot? I was going to head there on Sat, but there probably wont be enough space if your group is there!

angelmaz11

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« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2005, 03:56:22 pm »
He Andy,

Would be nice to see you. I think we'll be there any time between 10am and 5pm. Look out for a white mini bus, reg GN54PPK or GN54KKP or similar, depends which minibus we get from the Uni.

Anyway if u've still got my number gimme a call.

cucc Paul

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« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2005, 07:10:19 pm »
NAy way swildons trip was good and the air wasnt too bad