Author Topic: Cave rescue in Germany  (Read 14458 times)

Offline rsch

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2014, 06:48:02 pm »
Well, some video footage is out of the cave at least. According to today's news, the casualty was at Camp 3 by early monday morning and should be leaving there sometime around now. He's got some way to go yet.

Offline mr conners

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2014, 10:25:44 pm »
A mate who lives near to the area says he is expected to be out on Thursday.
Hopefully.
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Offline martinr

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2014, 10:35:07 pm »
Washington Post reporting the casualty has been brought safely to the surface However the link is to a short clip of the rescue mostly  below ground and has no commentary

A mate who lives near to the area says he is expected to be out on Thursday.
Hopefully.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 10:49:15 pm by martinr »

Online Maj

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2014, 09:42:32 am »
As said a couple of posts ago, not out yet but well on the way. He's in good spirits and eating well despite his injuries.

If you get asked why do we do it, direct them to this link:-

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/16/caver-johann-westhauser-giant-thing-potholers-risks

an article by Chris Howes.

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Offline mrodoc

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2014, 09:45:39 am »
Beat me to it Dave!

Offline damo8604

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2014, 09:51:00 am »
Reading the Guardian this morning there was a quote that the rescue is likely to cost several million euros, is this correct/likely?

Online Maj

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2014, 10:08:33 am »
Reading the Guardian this morning there was a quote that the rescue is likely to cost several million euros, is this correct/likely?

Well they have been using a number of helicopters (4?) to air lift the rescue volunteers and equipment up to the entrance, which would otherwise be a four hour climb. Looking at some of the videos and photos, I think they are using a local fire station as a base, or for press conferences at least, in addition to a low level camp and a camp at the entrance. There is also at least one fire tender (obviously not just a Mendip phenomenon  ;)). Include transportation cost of volunteers and kit from various other countries. Could well be a likely figure.

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Offline Mrs Trellis

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2014, 10:46:09 am »
....and payable by the casualty.
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Offline mrodoc

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2014, 10:50:56 am »
I beilieve they are contemplating a whip round to bale him out.

Offline graham

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2014, 11:03:37 am »
....and payable by the casualty.

My FFS insurance would cover this, I believe. Surely any Brit caver abroad has taken out relevant insurance. What is the German national body's policy on this?
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Online Maj

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2014, 11:13:12 am »
A post from back in may 2006 from Hoehlenforscher (http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=2089.0;nowap)

Perhaps you are interested in how it all works in Germany. As with the UK the Cave Rescue Organisations are charities and offer their services for free. However, all callouts MUST be accompanied byu the fire brigade and the police services who turn up en mass, erect a bloody great tent and sit round drinking tea and having a jolly while the CRO do their work. However, these service are NOT free. Similarly if the rescue should take place in Alpine caves and a rescue chopper would be needed then this would also cost. As far as the chopper rescue goes most cavers enjoy the benefits of being in the German Alpine club which covers helicopter rescue as part of the basic benefit of membership. The costs of the emergency services presence are not covered thoiugh and there was a big debate about 10 years ago with several cavers pushing for an insurance to cover these costs. Several companies were approahed to get premium quotes but there was a huge anti-insurance feeling from most cavers and it developed into a bit of a daft situation that got a bit political. In the end it was agreed that a "solidarity" fund would be set up. In effect all cavers were offered the cahnce to pay about £20 into a fund, held in an interest account, that could be used to cover costs in the event of a paid up caver needing to be rescued. Whatever costs were inccured could be met with the fund and it would then be topped up as and when needed by all and sundry should it be depleted. In ten years since I paid my contribution the fund has not been needed so it works out far better than insurance really. Will I mind paying again when someone else using up the pot to be rescued? Of course not, it might be me!
Hoehlenforscher.

Whether this is still the current situation or not I don't know  :shrug:
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Offline graham

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2014, 11:24:40 am »
Interesting post Maj, thanks.

I am reminded of a tale in, I think, one of Chris Bonnington's books about a rescue from the Eiger, sometime in the 1950s. Again, in such circumstances, the victim was responsible for the costs. On this occasion, as there was a high degree of public interest, it would have been possible for the guy to have sold his exclusive story to the press and covered it that way. However, some unscrupulous hack got at him when he was being brought off the mountain and at a time when the guy was still not thinking straight and 'interviewed' him. That story, extracted for free, was of course splashed as an exclusive itself, thus screwing the poor guy's chance of any recompense.

I'm sure that no British journos would act like that, oh no ... Sorry Lord Leveson, what was that?
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Offline Bottlebank

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2014, 11:50:13 am »
I suppose he could sell the film rights. Main thing is they get him out OK.
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Online Maj

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2014, 12:20:19 pm »
I believe the German Cave Rescue Association is currently fundraising to help towards the rescue costs should Johann Westhauser not have insurance to cover all/any of the costs. Any surplus will be put into the association's general funds, I guess this may be the fund mentioned in Hoehlenforscher post quoted earlier. Donations can be made via PayPal, see:-

http://www.xn--stiftung-hhlenrettung-qec.de/index.html

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Offline Olaf

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2014, 06:10:51 pm »
Good progress with the rescue: They are on the way from Camp Site 2 to Camp Site 1 already. The next bits are expected to be more difficult, though, including a waterfall. On the last leg from Camp Site 1 to the surface there is also a 180m pitch...

(source in German: http://www.bgland24.de/bgland/marktschellenberg/schnelle-fortschritte-beim-transport-hoehlenforschers-riesending-hoehle-marktschellenberg-3636797.html )

Offline Alkapton

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2014, 12:12:47 am »
The link you give is the same as a link higher in this thread, and I cant see the video because my connection to reality is iffy... to say the least.   I hope he is out I'm trying to get people to donate to the costs, but I th8ink he not out yet -- please tell me I am wrong.
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Offline kdxn

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2014, 08:58:56 am »
Excellent article by Chris Howes, one to bookmark.

For updates by a german agency in english:

http://www.dw.de/rescue-from-the-deep/a-17711834

They also have a twitter account in german but the following link should have this all translated to english for you

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdw_wissenschaft&edit-text=

Offline estelle

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2014, 04:58:40 pm »
the latest post on FB page - https://www.facebook.com/eurospeleo says in the last paragraph the cave will be closed after the rescue is completed. :(
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Offline hoehlenforscher

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2014, 12:24:28 am »
There is a high chance he will exit the cave some time tonight (if not already). Basically, as of a few hours ago they only had the 350m entrance shaft to negotiate, which, compared to the rest of the cave is relatively straight forward. Plus, there is access to plenty of fresh manpower and the psychological effect of being so close is a big factor now too.  And yes, there has been some speculation about closing the cave, but I think this is just media talk at the moment.

As for costs, the DAV (alpine Club) will cover search and rescue up to 25000 Euros, so that won't go far. I guess the cavers solidarity fund had several thousand Euros in it so that will be exhausted. The whip round as mentioned above will hopefully help too. Since there has never been such a major rescue operation as this before I can see that it may result in a complete review of the rescue system currently in place.

Offline Olaf

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2014, 11:03:19 am »
They've just reached the surface and got him safely out of the cave at 11:44am local time. There will be a press meeting soon... congratulations!

With regards to "closing the cave": It doesn't seem entirely clear yet, whether that just means installing a gate with an easy to get key to keep away the kids from the neighbourhood or what else they had in mind...

Offline Les W

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2014, 11:06:23 am »
This is very good news.
I hope he makes a quick recovery.

Well done to all the rescuers  :thumbsup:
It's good to see such co-operation and commitment.
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Offline estelle

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2014, 11:08:55 am »
fantastic news, great bit of teamwork. :)
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Offline graham

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2014, 11:11:21 am »
Excellent news. Well done to all concerned.  :clap2: :clap2:
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Offline SamT

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #48 on: June 19, 2014, 11:34:01 am »

Excellent work - well done to all those involved.  :thumbsup:

Offline Alex

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Re: Cave rescue in Germany
« Reply #49 on: June 19, 2014, 12:39:51 pm »
I doubt the original explorer when he recovers he will want the cave to be closed,  for one he probably has a bone to pick with it, facing demons and all that.
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