Author Topic: St Valentines Sump  (Read 14551 times)

RM

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St Valentines Sump
« on: January 09, 2006, 03:11:20 pm »
Im planning on having a look at it see if we can bail it. Just wondering if anyones been through recently, or has any tips for getting it sorted?

Offline seamoose

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St Valentines Sump
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2006, 01:45:42 pm »
Sam had a go at bailing it a couple of months ago... I think he may have some ideas?

My last attempt at bailing it was three or four years ago... the hole behind the dam initially took quite a few buckets of water... but it then started backing up with the sump still pretty full.

I suppose it may be possible to syphon it to eating house (or top of filthy five).

Offline SamT

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St Valentines Sump
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2006, 05:23:37 pm »
Eyup rob - got your PM - meant to reply but I've had my head up my arse recently.

Im on nights this week but could be on for a trip there next week. I've got a few ideas. I'll give you a bell

Offline Pitlamp

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St Valentines Sump
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2006, 06:12:33 pm »
RM - don't consider trying to free dive it; it's quite long and the exit at the far end is very restricted.  Someone has asked about it on this forum before (probably one of the threads on the Derbyshire page).  There's some potentially useful information in CDG Newsletter 67 page 12.

RM

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St Valentines Sump
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2006, 09:09:35 pm »
Went to St Valentines Sump today. The drain hole has a bucket jammed in it which was too far in to remove. Bout 3 meters. We bailed the sump into the dam till it was full, but the drian hole did nothing. The sump did not open though it was possible to go about 5 m in to a small bell as a very sporting duck. Does anyone know how close this is to the far side? Also went round and up the filthy five pitches to look at the other side. Could do with some rebolting in there, and the mailons looked very rusty. Have replaced the dynamic rope with static, though the y hangs in there are still rigged with all sorts. Needs someone to have a proper go the place.

Oh yeah and its a filthy as youd expect

Great fun

Offline SamT

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St Valentines Sump
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2006, 04:53:14 am »
sorry rob - didnt realise that bucket was so far in. Thinking about it, I was using that yellow hose to try and hook it. Do you think about 3 drain rods with a hook would do it??

When you say that the drian hole did nothing  - do you mean it would not take any water - or do you mean that it didnt back up.

Good effort sorting a bit of better rope out on the other side.

 :D

I think its worth a bit of effort to sort out this section of giants. Could be on for a trip next week

RM

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St Valentines Sump
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2006, 10:03:50 am »
The drain hole backed up very quickly. 3 drain rods might do the bucket but im not sure.

would be up for a trip next wed eve onwards though at the mo im not sure how to get it goin without serious engineering. Interesting place though

Offline danthecavingman

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St Valentines sump
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2006, 01:40:35 pm »
I'm up for a trip next Weds evening. Can you give us a lift Rob?

BTW I think I have an idea of how to get the bucket!

Get something that will punch a hole through the bucket and then drop in a toggle anchor through the hole on a bit of thread bar of suitable length. The toggle anchor will "Deploy" and you then pull the bucket back out. Any thoughts?
You see that Taxus baccata.........that's Yew that is........

Offline SamT

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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2006, 03:38:11 pm »
I guess the the drain must be pretty blocked - regardless of the bucket. Still worth getting out though.

By the way - did you have a look at that second drain hole further back.
How far back from the sump was it - 30m ish. Could be a job for some of that fire hose I have.

RM

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St Valentines Sump
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2006, 04:15:56 pm »
Second drain hole definatly looked better. Id say slightly less than 30m, though a pump may be useful. Im sure we can sort you a lift dan if you want to come along, see you at the pub.

Offline SamT

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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2006, 07:13:07 pm »
Im up for a trip wednesday night - We'll maul a lenght of that hose in. and I'll fetch a pump too. See if we can get a syphon going down that other drain hole

RM

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St Valentines Sump
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2006, 08:09:00 pm »
sounds like a plan

Offline danthecavingman

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Wednesday
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2006, 10:07:42 am »
Doh!

I'm busy Wednesday night. Can't make it.
You see that Taxus baccata.........that's Yew that is........

Offline Dickie

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St Valentines Sump
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2006, 06:29:13 am »
When you get through th sump, turn left instead of going down the FF and keep following the passage up to the end. At the far end there's a hole in the roof blocked with boulders, that goes??????
Amazin Razin rools OK!

Offline SamT

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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2006, 08:52:35 am »
Hmmmm  :P

Offline paul

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« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2006, 08:03:42 am »
So - did any of you lot make any progress last night? I spotted a length of hosepipe by the car...
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Offline SamT

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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2006, 09:26:15 am »
Hose pipe was mauled down to the sump in 1/2 an hour flat. (it actually rolled quite nicely along the bottom for the majority of the way).

The usual drain is most definitely well blocked as the sump level was quite high and the water had backed up out of the drain i.e. it didn't appear to be flowing away at all.

The alternative drain looks very promising since I could hear the main stream rumbling away in the distance down the hole.

Unfortunately - the small single diaphragm pump we had with us was not sufficient to overcome the head needed.
The passage is deceptively steep and we reckon we need to overcome about 2 meters head before it flows back down the passage to the drain.

We tried holding each end of the hose in the air and filling it with a bucket (ala "the troubles" in swildons) but this didn't seem to work either. Not convinced that there wasn't some sort of air lock half way along the pipe that was preventing us from filling it properly

Due to the time we didn't spend too long messing about and were back out by 11:15 missing the pub.  :x

I reckon a bigger pump should do the trick. Its a shame because I'd hoped that we could either leave the cheap pump insitu or be able to prime the pipe by bailing.

Well the pipe is now installed - just need to spend some time fiddling about.
I'm sure it can be done.

Offline SamT

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« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2006, 01:26:55 pm »
Quote from: "andy stewart"
Right- I have a pump, but how far is it to siphon back to? There was a drain hole that took water last saturday. Or would it have to go back to the Eating house to drain the sump?


There is a drain right by the concrete dam at the entrance to the sump - this is blocked.

There is another drain about 30 meters back towards the eating house.
It is on the lhs of the passage as you approach from the Eating house and just before the small annoying lake.

Was it here that you were bailing with an orange bucket??
I only say this because it looked like the drain hole had had some stuff washed in recently.
If so - please take care not to wash more stuff into the hole - we spent some time last night digging it out. The last thing we want is for this hole to become blocked too.

The pipe in place is an old fire hose from an office. Red rubber, I reckon its about a 1/2" int. diameter. Please do not fiddle about too much as we now have it just about where we want it. There is hopfully enough slack to push down the drain hole - hopefully to a level lower than St vals sump and hence get a syphon effect.

Could I also ask that any extranous gubbins are removed. I spent a couple of trips last year clearing out broken buckets/hose/placky bags/sweet wrappers - etc etc.

There was one more broken orange bucket/a rusty tin can and a blue poly sheet . so if you have any spare room on the way out it would be much appreciated.

I am leaving the big bore black rubber pipe and any buckets that are not broken.

Good luck - Sam

BenM

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St Valentines Sump
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2006, 03:33:20 pm »
Just a suggestion/though here....but

If the sump can not be siphoned effectivly could we look at building up the current dam to a greater hight? Simply bail from one side to the other to pass through... then release the water back through. (See Robs previous post).

The slope of the approach to the dam simply means the more layers we put on the capacity increase's exponentially, so it shouldn't take all that much building.

What (again) would be really handy though is an accurate survey of the sump.

Ben

Offline SamT

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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2006, 05:17:27 pm »
Its a possibility but a last resort i think.

There are a few problems involved in that one too. You will have to remember to unplug it either on your way out - or just before the last person goes through. It will take quite a long time to bail.

Plus - you may have a problem with accumulating water levels - i.e - if the dam is full - and the water is still filling the sump - then you have more water to get rid of next time.

I'd like to give this syphon idea a good go before we start dragging bags of cement down the crabwalk.

Lets see how andy gets on at the weekend.

We've plenty more pipe if we need it - and access to a bigger pump too.

Offline Mark

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St Valentines Sump
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2006, 06:13:30 pm »
Just wondered if it was possible to put a pipe through the sump and pump the water over the lip at the downstream side instead of down the drain holes, does that make sense?

RM

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St Valentines Sump
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2006, 07:22:10 pm »
Unfortunatly not. There is about a 2 m lip on the other side and a good 20m to the head of the pitch where the angle goes down. When we bailed the sump into the original dam I managed to get a long way in, about 5m past where the line is tied, to a little bell, This made me wonder if a higher dam was the answer on the basis we must be close, though the far end is abit tight for the free dive if not.

Offline SamT

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« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2006, 12:52:32 pm »
I thought about the same Mark - Thats what Ive set up in Namraed in baggers (not tested it yet though).

A couple of people have said that the lip in the other side is higher than the near side though.

I still want to go back with a  better pump - and a little more time - see what can be done.

Offline SamT

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St Valentines Sump
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2006, 12:57:09 pm »
Andy - did you have any joy on saturday.

BenM

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St Valentines Sump
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2006, 05:47:16 pm »
Rob.... I know I was there with you, but did you say that there was a line?
Quote
about 5m past where the line is tied, to a little bell


Does this pass all the way though the sump - did u/anybody notice?

If so... with a few garden cains, a bit of string and a spirit level we could get a good estimate of the length of this thing and a maybe reasonable estimate of the lowest hight of the ceiling?

Just a thought in the absence of a survay!