Author Topic: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......  (Read 6417 times)

Offline Pegasus

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If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« on: November 18, 2017, 09:52:29 am »
Tim Allen's introduction at The Petzl Underground Session, Kendal Mountain Festival last night.

Apologies for the visual, however his words are worth a listen....


Offline Goydenman

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2017, 10:33:06 am »
Great speech Tim and I love the comparison made with mountains

Offline Pegasus

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2017, 01:04:01 pm »
....and it goes without saying (however I'm going to say it anyway :thumbsup:), UKC isn't just Tim and I, it's the Moderation team too + every single caver who uses the forum -thank you one and all  :thumbsup:

Thanks also to everyone who spoke and supported the Petzl Underground Session - I'll put a few photos up when I get a chance  :thumbsup: ;D
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 03:25:11 pm by Pegasus »

Offline Swallowneck

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2017, 02:17:36 pm »
A very enjoyable evening, thanks to everyone for putting in all the the effort to make it happen. 

:clap2:

Offline chunky

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2017, 03:29:32 pm »
Yep a great and well thought out opening to the session. Bit nerve wracking but very enjoyable!

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Offline Stupot

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2017, 04:34:29 pm »
Really great speech Tim - spot on  :thumbsup:
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Offline Kenilworth

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2017, 04:56:05 pm »
But caves are not mountains. Their parts and demands and weaknesses are not the same. Besides this, statistics of height, length, or depth are no measure of worth except to a world from whom all true worth is hidden. I have tried for years now, immersing myself at times in premises such as Mr. Allen's, that I might understand them, and have yet to. Whenever I read a text or hear a speech such as his, the question remains, to the point of agony; to what end?

Online Roger W

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2017, 06:19:00 pm »
 :weep:
"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline maxf

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2017, 01:00:06 pm »
But caves are not mountains. Their parts and demands and weaknesses are not the same. Besides this, statistics of height, length, or depth are no measure of worth except to a world from whom all true worth is hidden. I have tried for years now, immersing myself at times in premises such as Mr. Allen's, that I might understand them, and have yet to. Whenever I read a text or hear a speech such as his, the question remains, to the point of agony; to what end?

It sounds like you completely missed the point of his speech...

Offline NewStuff

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2017, 01:19:56 pm »
But caves are not mountains. Their parts and demands and weaknesses are not the same. Besides this, statistics of height, length, or depth are no measure of worth except to a world from whom all true worth is hidden. I have tried for years now, immersing myself at times in premises such as Mr. Allen's, that I might understand them, and have yet to. Whenever I read a text or hear a speech such as his, the question remains, to the point of agony; to what end?

It sounds like you completely missed the point of his speech...

It's deliberate. He's a troll. Ignore it.
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Offline Pegasus

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2017, 01:39:43 pm »
analogy
əˈnalədʒi/Submit
noun
a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

Offline Kenilworth

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2017, 01:41:42 pm »
But caves are not mountains. Their parts and demands and weaknesses are not the same. Besides this, statistics of height, length, or depth are no measure of worth except to a world from whom all true worth is hidden. I have tried for years now, immersing myself at times in premises such as Mr. Allen's, that I might understand them, and have yet to. Whenever I read a text or hear a speech such as his, the question remains, to the point of agony; to what end?

It sounds like you completely missed the point of his speech...

Did I? I believed it to say that caving deserves a larger public profile and wider recognition, such as that had by climbing. It seemed to me to say that the Three Counties System deserves the general recognition and traffic that Mont Blanc has, based on nothing more than its relative size rank. If he meant something different, I would surely like to know what it was.

Offline Kenilworth

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2017, 01:46:24 pm »
analogy
əˈnalədʒi/Submit
noun
a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

Yes Pegasus, I am a great lover of analogy. But none was really made in the speech. It was all quantitative and didn't explain or clarify anything to me. It highlighted a difference with no effort to explain why there was a difference, then concluded that there should be no difference.

Online mikem

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2017, 01:59:31 pm »
It was a Mountaineering Festival, hence a suitable comparison for the potential audience.

Mike

Offline ZombieCake

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2017, 10:20:19 pm »
The Swiss are immortalising their landscape in their cutlery designs: https://www.swiss-knife.com/en/cutlery/panorama-knife/panoramaknife-pocket-knife-best-of-switzerland-3.html
I think Tim's talk was really good.  Thing is caves are still largely hidden despite their massive relevance to the wider understanding of the world and aren't really the facilitators of mass tourism.  You can wander far and wide over hill and dale, but not in a cave. There is also the ingrained preaching DNA over centuries that caves are bad places to be which has its limits to commercial and other activities.

Offline BradW

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 09:17:49 am »
But caves are not mountains. Their parts and demands and weaknesses are not the same. Besides this, statistics of height, length, or depth are no measure of worth except to a world from whom all true worth is hidden. I have tried for years now, immersing myself at times in premises such as Mr. Allen's, that I might understand them, and have yet to. Whenever I read a text or hear a speech such as his, the question remains, to the point of agony; to what end?
I am with you Kenilworth. Why on earth would we want to draw parallels between caves and other natural features? The thing that makes caves so special is fundamentally unique to caves. I can't think of a parallel and trying to draw one simply leads to unwanted misconceptions. That said, everyone has their own natural way of trying to get a message over, and I suppose Tim Allen was simply using the way that is most comfortable to him.

Online tony from suffolk

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2017, 11:23:52 am »
An excellent speech, an entirely appropriate analogy for the point Tim was making. Maybe some of you need to listen to it again, if you really fail to grasp this.
"Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment"

Offline Kenilworth

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2017, 12:00:04 pm »
An excellent speech, an entirely appropriate analogy for the point Tim was making. Maybe some of you need to listen to it again, if you really fail to grasp this.

I listened again. Can someone just tell me what the point was, so I can quit worrying about it?

Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2017, 12:08:41 pm »
Nobody has done more than Tim in recent years in the UK to promote caving, cave access and cave conservation. He has a gift for helping people think about caves in new and different ways and is a great ambassador for caving.

Actually, possibly, nobody has ever done as much for those causes anywhere, ever.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 12:18:54 pm by Simon Wilson »

Offline JoshW

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2017, 12:15:43 pm »
An excellent speech, an entirely appropriate analogy for the point Tim was making. Maybe some of you need to listen to it again, if you really fail to grasp this.

I listened again. Can someone just tell me what the point was, so I can quit worrying about it?

Such a blatant troll, can't believe people still entertain you in conversation.

I personally enjoyed the analogy, and have massive respect for both Tim and Jane for the work they do in promoting caving to the wider 'outdoorsy' population. The caving community has an aging population, and the work they're doing to get the next generation of youngsters involved in the sport cannot be underestimated. So bugger off back under your bridge, troll.

Online tony from suffolk

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2017, 12:47:55 pm »
An excellent speech, an entirely appropriate analogy for the point Tim was making. Maybe some of you need to listen to it again, if you really fail to grasp this.

I listened again. Can someone just tell me what the point was, so I can quit worrying about it?
If you have to explain it...
"Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment"

Offline BradW

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2017, 12:52:56 pm »
People who have a different perspective from the mainstream are not trolls. I would far rather read other peoples viewpoints regardless of whether I agree with them, as it helps to focus on what I think, and perhaps alter my viewpoint? I would rather read a politely expressed view that I don't agree with than a string of abuse targeted towards them.

Offline JoshW

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2017, 01:04:23 pm »
People who have a different perspective from the mainstream are not trolls. I would far rather read other peoples viewpoints regardless of whether I agree with them, as it helps to focus on what I think, and perhaps alter my viewpoint? I would rather read a politely expressed view that I don't agree with than a string of abuse targeted towards them.

It's not having a different viewpoint that makes kenilworth a troll, it's the blatant WUMing (windup merchanting) at every possibility. Not sure he actually has a different viewpoint, or a viewpoint at all, other than one wanting to itch people's sh*t.

Offline BradW

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2017, 01:23:34 pm »
Really? I hadn't noticed any winding up - just an interesting observation that I actually sympathise with. If it winds YOU up - perhaps that's not actually his problem?

Offline alastairgott

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Re: If the Three Counties were Mont Blanc......
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2017, 01:35:40 pm »
Bradw if you think we're abusing someone on the forum, perhaps you should set up two polls.
1) are we abusing the person you allude to.
2) is the person a troll.

 

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