Author Topic: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC  (Read 7114 times)

Offline wellyjen

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2020, 07:42:10 pm »
We are ahead of you! There is a button to donate to DCRO, rather than CCPC on the guide web page. https://www.ccpc.org.uk/rigging.htnl.
Jen

Fumble fingers. The link should be https://www.ccpc.org.uk/rigging.html.
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Offline wellyjen

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2020, 07:52:13 pm »
All good stuff - but the "3D Models" from the registry either don't work any more or I'm doing something wrong?
For me the Bradwell and the Stoney model viewers on the DCA Peak Survex Project page are working, but the Castleton and the overall Peak ones are not. Downloading the data and trying to open it with Aven gives a "Bad 3d image file" error, so it looks like these files on the DCA site are corrupt. DCA maintain these, not CCPC, so nothing we can do, other than let them know there is a problem, which I've just done!
Jen
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Offline Scud

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2020, 10:36:32 pm »
All good stuff - but the "3D Models" from the registry either don't work any more or I'm doing something wrong?
For me the Bradwell and the Stoney model viewers on the DCA Peak Survex Project page are working, but the Castleton and the overall Peak ones are not. Downloading the data and trying to open it with Aven gives a "Bad 3d image file" error, so it looks like these files on the DCA site are corrupt. DCA maintain these, not CCPC, so nothing we can do, other than let them know there is a problem, which I've just done!
Jen

I’ve let the DCA Webmaster know and he will take a look.

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2020, 11:02:14 pm »
This is fixed now ;)

Offline andys

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2020, 09:47:19 am »
Plateaus are the highest form of flattery.

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2020, 10:23:07 am »
It's working OK for me.

Offline wellyjen

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2020, 10:50:04 am »


Still not working for me I'm afraid. For reference, here's (one of) the URL I was trying:

https://peakdistrictcaving.info/CaveView/?file=Castleton_Master_NoSurface.3d&prefix=castleton_master_nosurface.giants_oxlow_maskhill_system

Try emptying your browser cache. It may be still using the previously downloaded dodgy version of the data.
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Offline andys

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2020, 01:54:10 pm »


Still not working for me I'm afraid. For reference, here's (one of) the URL I was trying:

https://peakdistrictcaving.info/CaveView/?file=Castleton_Master_NoSurface.3d&prefix=castleton_master_nosurface.giants_oxlow_maskhill_system

Try emptying your browser cache. It may be still using the previously downloaded dodgy version of the data.

Spot on - problem solved - and many thanks!
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Offline wellyjen

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2021, 10:06:08 pm »
Added a topo for The Dungeon in Bagshawe Cavern. Other pitches in Bagshawe will follow at some point, but this is the most often descended. The DCA access links for some of the caves were broken, so the links on the site and the QR codes on the topos have been corrected. All caves now use peakdistrictcaving.info links, rather than a mix of these and DCA Cave Registry links. Since many topos have new QR codes, the opportunity has been taken to renumber the pages to take account of the two new topos since the last renumbering. The Level 7 / Hope Shaft topo is now called Middleton Dale Mine - Level 7 / Hope Shaft to match the naming in CotPD. Various other minor corrections. A printed guide will need printing again to bring it up to date. The latest version is now 13.2.
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Offline tdobson

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2021, 12:53:09 am »
Added a topo for The Dungeon in Bagshawe Cavern. Other pitches in Bagshawe will follow at some point, but this is the most often descended.

Absolutely love that you've added this. I'm often helping newbies rig, and this is a favourite of mine. This will help. Thank you.

Offline wellyjen

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2021, 09:41:12 pm »
The Youds' Level / Day Shaft topo has had the name changed to the more historically accurate Deep Shaft. It drops in to Ringing Rake Sough, the original name for Youds. See this thread for the details. https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=27801.msg341267;topicseen#new. This will help keep the rigging guide consistent with the DCA on-line information. If/when Gentlewoman's Shaft is reopened and access renegotiated, this can be added to the topo.
The new revision is 13.3.

Confused?
Jen
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Offline wellyjen

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2021, 07:08:45 pm »
Some caving by push bike in the sunshine to check rigging and rope lengths so we can replace a couple of written descriptions with proper topos. Minimal kit, a 30m rope, SRT kit, helmet/lights and a boiler suit meant I could actually cycle up the hills! Braved the hurtling lorries  :o on the A623 through Stoney Middleton Dale without getting squished to sketch Lay-By Pot mined shaft, Eayam Dale Shaft and Flower Pot. These have resulted in new topos for Lay-by Pot and Carlswark Cavern. The recommended rope length for Eyam Dale Shaft has increased to allow a back up to a tree. As this shaft is used a lot by relative novices, it seemed a good idea. You can use a shorter rope if you miss this out. The new Rigging Guide revision is 13.4.
Jen.
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Online pwhole

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2021, 07:14:11 pm »
Nice one Jen, thanks for doing that and well done for doing Stoney Dale on a bike!  :bow:

Offline tdobson

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2021, 12:22:44 pm »
The recommended rope length for Eyam Dale Shaft has increased to allow a back up to a tree. As this shaft is used a lot by relative novices, it seemed a good idea

I actually have a personal story of a mini epic / unexpected changeover for someone who wasn't expecting one from this problem, in this cave. I blamed myself (accurate!) but updating the rope length is be great. Thanks! :)

Offline wellyjen

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2021, 02:12:24 pm »
The recommended rope length for Eyam Dale Shaft has increased to allow a back up to a tree. As this shaft is used a lot by relative novices, it seemed a good idea

I actually have a personal story of a mini epic / unexpected changeover for someone who wasn't expecting one from this problem, in this cave. I blamed myself (accurate!) but updating the rope length is be great. Thanks! :)

Yes, the old description mentioned backing up to a tree, then gave a rope length that would only work if you didn't!
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Offline Pipster

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2021, 04:30:54 pm »
Hi wellyjen - PM sent!  :)
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Offline wellyjen

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2021, 06:24:46 pm »
Hi wellyjen - PM sent!  :)
And replied to.  :)
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Offline Fishes

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2021, 10:30:02 am »
In my mind there is something a little sad about a rigging guide for something so simple as Eyam Dale shaft. I understand the benefits of guides for complex pitches or multipitch caves but surely working out the best way to rig a pitch is part of caving.

If you can't rig something so simple without a guide then I really have to wonder if you should be rigging or leading a trip at all.

Offline Martin Wright

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2021, 11:01:11 am »
In response to Fishes' point, I would suggest that most people will use the guide to determine, before leaving home/club, the lengths of rope required for their chosen trip so that these can be selected and packed in good time. It is not a "Noddy's guide to rigging", but even an experienced caver may gain some useful information from reading the relevant chapter for their trip.
tdobson's story above about the unexpected changeover illustrates this perfectly.
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Online paul

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2021, 11:48:56 am »
In response to Fishes' point, I would suggest that most people will use the guide to determine, before leaving home/club, the lengths of rope required for their chosen trip so that these can be selected and packed in good time. It is not a "Noddy's guide to rigging", but even an experienced caver may gain some useful information from reading the relevant chapter for their trip.
tdobson's story above about the unexpected changeover illustrates this perfectly.

I have to agree with that. The rigging guides not only help with arriving at the cave with the appropriate lengths of rope, but also enough krabs / maillons for anchors, plus slings, etc. for deviations.
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Offline Fishes

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2021, 12:22:29 pm »
I do get the guides for more complex or extensive rigging but it seems OTT for a single pitch with no deviations or rebelays.

Anyone should really be prepared for a changover. Even if you have plenty of rope then its not so uncommon to have to deal with something like hair or clothing getting caught in a descender or having to deal with a damaged rope. One of my friends even managed to get his beard caught in his descender.

I tend to prefer exploratory caving and mine exploration and spend most of my time in places with no survey unless we are making it and most people have never heard of. In reality though this often involves a lot of squirming around in mud while trying to juggle with boulders that don't want to stay where you want them.


Offline wellyjen

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2021, 07:16:54 pm »
I get your point. A topo for a single pitch drop isn't, or shouldn't be necessary. It is done mostly for stylistic consistency with the rest of the guide and its more complex pitches. Going back to check stuff is very useful. The old description for Lay-by Pot that was replaced for example, still said belay off a fallen tree. That tree has long gone. I recall it not being there the last time I visited, about six months before COVID kicked off. The guide is there for all cavers, novice, or otherwise and knowing what to expect means you can take the right kit and not be loaded down with loads of extra rope and clanky bits, just in case, or worse, not have enough stuff.
There are a couple of topos in the works that should satisfy wishes for more complex rigging, with multiple pitches, rebelays, deviations and all that fun stuff. When they might get published depends on several factors, some of which aren't in my control.
Jen
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Offline wellyjen

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2021, 07:23:11 pm »
The guide has said that the part 2 topo for Snake Mine will follow soon for almost a year now. We finally got back down there last weekend and checked it against reality, so it has now been published after a few modifications. Thanks again to Dan Lay for doing the bolting and drawing the original sketches on which these topos are based. There is a link to a set of  PDMHS articles from 1968 that gives a very comprehensive write up, plus a survey, which is worth reading before a visit. The mine makes a good day out.

In much of this mine the roof and shaft walls are made from stacked deads, founded on stone stemples and arches. They were very neatly and well made, but the youngest will now have been there for a century. The SRT routes avoid them as much as possible, but the consequences of a collapse 'cause you were clumsy are pretty obvious. For a Peak District lead mine it appears to be in reasonably good condition though. Stone is more durable than wood.
Jen

https://www.ccpc.org.uk/rigging.html#snake
« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 07:33:53 pm by wellyjen »
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Offline wellyjen

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2021, 10:23:33 pm »
Following the news that Odin Mine is accessible again, I have temporarily removed the topo from the rigging guide and put in a placeholder page. Our topo was very definitely "before" and it sounds like the rigging "after" is rather different. Until we can get some Crewe members down there to take a look, make some sketches and measure some ropes, you should use the DCA's information.
Thank you all the DCA people who have worked so hard over the last decade to get this site accessible by cavers again. Once again, we can visit the wondrous jewel of the Peak District underworld.  ;D
Jen

The rigging guide version is now 13.6.
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Offline wellyjen

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Re: Peak District Rigging Guide. CCPC
« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2021, 09:23:07 pm »
CCPC members were in Odin Mine on Saturday and Sunday. This was after the weather forecast made the planned Providence Pot to Dow Cave traverse look not so sensible. One of the results of this, aside from some cavers and their gear getting very muddy, are new Odin Mine topos for the rigging guide. Trying to fit all the new anchors on to one page as before ended up looking very cluttered, so it has been split across two pages. The new version number for the guide is 13.7.
https://www.ccpc.org.uk/rigging.html#odin

Jen
Can't sleep. Clowns will eat me.
CCPC

 

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