Author Topic: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?  (Read 2415 times)

Offline gingerlycolors

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2020, 02:01:08 pm »
You will find that ALL sport and not just caving (with the exception of the Belarusian Football League) has been put on hold because of Coronavirus.  As we come out of lockdown and move to a "new normal" we will have to wait until the BCA and other groups such as the British Mountaineering Council and British Cave Rescue and Mountain Rescue Councils issue advice and then we may have to confine ourselves to low risk trips not far from home.  As a good day's caving is not complete without a sesh in the pub afterwards it will not really be worth caving until the pubs re-open and unfortunately that will not be for a while yet. Hopefully the vaccine that Astrazenica are working on will work and be available by Autumn and get us out of this purgatory.

Offline Alex

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2020, 02:22:49 pm »
I can forgo the pubs if need be. Some like you cave for the social aspect, I guess that makes sense but some cave for exploration or the sport and would probably want to go caving before pubs and other facilities open, which could be a long time off. I don't hold up much hope for a vaccine, I mean there is no vaccine for the common cold and the flu one is only 50% effective. I don't think I could cope with the thought of not caving for at least another 6 months to forever. I would literally go insane, people who know me closely, may notice I have been getting rather angry with everything under the sun (including the sun) recently.

Once the pressure is off, and things ease down, I think social isolating caving trips would be okay, but I agree you should not be rushing off to bottom Quaking on the first day back.
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline royfellows

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2020, 03:35:12 pm »
There are people out there in a worse situation.

Grappling sports such as Judo could be finished for the foreseeable future. Aikido which I do could maybe come back in as weapons only nights towards year end, as maybe karate with no partnered techniques, I can practice both of these on my own at home anyway as long as I dont practice doing something incorrectly.  :lol:

So keep your chin up and hope for the best.
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Offline mountainpenguin

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2020, 03:47:16 pm »
If we a re looking at risk in terms of death per hour of activity then horse riding tops the bill and then some yet this is currently allowed. Much more risky than almost *every* other form of exercise. In wales we will of course have to wait until indoor exercise is approved before caving can start !

Online cavemanmike

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2020, 04:18:49 pm »
I agree with mountaipenguin.
With regards to horseriding, my daughter nearly lost her life a few years back and almost had her ear ripped off in another horse related accident and yet my wife and I are quite often at odds as she is under the impression caving and climbing are MUCH more dangerous than horseriding.
Oh, I've never (touch wood) had a caving accident.
Funny that isn't it
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Offline Duck ditch

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2020, 04:22:27 pm »
This reminds me of a discussion we had in the club hut some time ago.  I felt that I had a 99 % chance of coming out of a cave alive on every trip.  Others put there chances lower on just a standard trip.  I felt I wouldn’t go do a trip if I felt I had a 10% chance of death.

For gods sake don’t Make a mistake caving.  The media would kill the sport if there was a rescue in the next few weeks .  Even turning up at hospital with a caving injury would be a disaster for the sport I feel.

Offline mikem

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2020, 04:29:47 pm »
Cyclists have massively increased exposure to risk at the moment - as stated already, some cars are speeding more than usual, because there are fewer of them & giving riders less clearance (several reports of them being forced off the road, including injuries). Also lots of people, who are out of practice being on roads, are now cycling (& going further than normal).

There is the comparison thread elsewhere on here about accidents per hour of different activities...

& on the comment about excessive numbers of appliances turning up for accidents - that's more about them justifying their existence, rather than necessities of dealing with the incident at hand.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2020, 04:59:01 pm by mikem »

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2020, 05:45:56 pm »
Nearly got flattened on my bike near leek by a milk lorry on a country road at the weekend.
 Hands up! I'm not normally on the road every weekend but gotta do something!

Offline mikem

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2020, 06:45:15 pm »
Spent more time cycling in last 2 weeks than I normally do in a whole year...

Offline Brains

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2020, 07:05:29 pm »
Still not all bad... Just seen a post saying a reality TV thing called "love island" wont be done till 2021.
Silver lining and all that?

Offline mikem

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2020, 07:35:48 pm »
ITV4 seem to be showing euro 96 instead...

Online maxb727

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2020, 09:17:06 am »
Everyone in Somerset seems to own a bike now and although this makes the roads busier and not everyone has the best road awareness, I hope some lasting benefits come from all this for the 'normal' family.

More quality family time, exploring our local areas instead of always jumping in the car, less commuting for parents and a generally fitter/healthier family going out to exercise together as something fun to do.

With regards to caving......we are a minority sport, the majority of the country probably don't care and while we might be really missing our main hobby, it is a small sacrifice for a relatively short space of time based on average life expectancy. I guess access to some caves will be out of our control (I don't want to start an access debate - please control yourselves), and maybe it is a personal moral decision as to whether the trip we are doing has a high likelihood of risk to cause unnecessary trouble for anyone else (rescue, medical resources etc)

It might be hard for some as we are all different, but make the most of this time to discover something you wouldn't normally have time to do - be thankful for what we can do and at least we are all in this together.

Stay safe and well  :beer2:

Online tamarmole

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2020, 12:22:44 pm »
I wonder if I can claim the prize for the greatest show of non caving will power. 

Just before lockdown  my mine project went; I climbed a dodgy stope into an open looking level.  As the climb was not well protected I decided to leave the push into new ground until next week when I could put some decent protection in, then lockdown kicked in.  Being a fairly responsible sort of chap I have given up underground adventures for the duration.  As I am now on furlough I am doing an awful lot of walking.  My usual walk takes me right past my project and I usually stop and have a chat with the landowner who is extremely enthusiastic about what I am doing in his mine.  This must surely come under the heading of cruel and unusual punishment!

Offline Jenny P

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2020, 12:44:43 pm »
What you can do in the way of caving may very well depend on where you live in relation to caving areas.  There is a difference in being able to cycle or drive for, say, an hour and go down a cave (or even walk there), as opposed to living 4 or 5 hours drive away, which makes it impractical to do even day trips.  If you are lucky enough to live in or close to a caving area, it's a whole different kettle of fish.  It also makes a difference whether you own all your own ropes and tackle or whether, like many younger cavers, you rely on borrowing club tackle from a Club Hut which is currently inaccessible.

Club Huts are included in the lock-down and, since they and climbing club huts are basically considered  "hostels" (like the YHA and independent bunkhouses), we may well find there are quite strict criteria set by HMG on when they may re-open.  In the mean time, clubs who own huts are faced with paying the necessary expenses for upkeep with no income from "Hut Fees" from their own members or any visiting clubs.  Many clubs have been offered a grant as they are considered a "small business" by the local rating authority - but this then brings further worries about "taxable income", etc.  It would be useful to have some authoritative guidance from someone who understands the tax and accounting side of this.

Offline ttxela2

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2020, 02:20:17 pm »
I'm keen to get back to any number of things, underground trips, motorhome holidays, kayaking on the river, etc. etc.

At the moment it still seems no-one (understandably) can make any reliable prediction. I've read of campsites that state authoritatively that they are re-opening on the first of June and other folks confidently predicting the current rules won't change until next year.

In many corners of the interweb a predictable routine is unfolding where one enquiring soul will tentatively express their ponderings on when their favourite pastime will become permissible once more only to be rounded on by furious, outraged & indignant characters condemning their selfishness at even considering such a thing whilst other reckless mavericks declare they've never stopped and don't believe any restrictions were warranted in the first place.

For my part I'm currently siding with caution, much as I am keen to get back to stuff I'm reasonably persuaded that a sudden return too quickly to life as we once knew it may be disastrous.

I haven't heard anything more definitive than 'not quite yet' in answer to this sort of question  :down:

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2020, 04:39:02 pm »
What you can do in the way of caving may very well depend on where you live in relation to caving areas.  There is a difference in being able to cycle or drive for, say, an hour and go down a cave (or even walk there), as opposed to living 4 or 5 hours drive away, which makes it impractical to do even day trips. 

We’ll have to have caver post for cavers then :) if I live an hour away and someone else lives two hours away, well then, I’ll have to give them a lift.

I wonder how far you could stretch that round the country. Maybe even hiring coaches, sorry, got carried away maybe not allowed coaches in social distancing times.

Offline Duck ditch

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2020, 04:54:20 pm »
I think the travelling is going to b3 the hardest bit when the lockdown is relaxed.  You could argue that you are socially distancing in the cave, except digging.  But car sharing just can’t be done at a 2 metre distance. 

Online cavemanmike

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2020, 04:58:32 pm »
Irelands lock down plan is by the 18th of May outdoors sports will be allowed

Offline al

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #43 on: May 05, 2020, 07:03:55 pm »
Irelands lock down plan is by the 18th of May outdoors sports will be allowed
  Where does it say that? Do you mean the "up-to-four from different households" can meet outdoors?
Old ... but not old enough to know any better

Offline Kenilworth

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2020, 07:30:22 pm »
I don't know how US cavers generally have reacted to the current sociopolitical/health dilemma, nor do I know what local governments allow or forbid, but I have carried on caving as normal.

Offline mikem

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2020, 08:20:05 pm »
Are you near a state boundary?

Offline Kenilworth

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #46 on: May 05, 2020, 09:47:53 pm »
Are you near a state boundary?
Me? I live in two states and keep the road hot between them. I do most of my regular caving in six states.

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #47 on: May 05, 2020, 09:53:28 pm »
Woweee, sounds like a great life. 3 of the 6 must be TAG.

hmm if you're a cave diver then Florida as well?

Offline Kenilworth

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #48 on: May 05, 2020, 10:11:39 pm »
Woweee, sounds like a great life. 3 of the 6 must be TAG.

hmm if you're a cave diver then Florida as well?

No TAG, only TN. I live in Ohio and Virginia and cave there plus West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky and Indiana. These are the places I have active survey projects.

Offline yrammy

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Re: Caving under the “new normal” how will we know when ?
« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2020, 09:14:14 am »
There must be a way................

 

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