Author Topic: topic split - Last night of the Proms and Patriotism  (Read 1112 times)

Online tony from suffolk

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Re: topic split - Last night of the Proms and Patriotism
« Reply #50 on: September 14, 2021, 07:16:38 pm »
I have no idea what drill music is though.
I believe it's an Elton John song - “Makita”.
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Offline Mrs Trellis

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Re: topic split - Last night of the Proms and Patriotism
« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2021, 07:19:22 pm »
"Classical" music forms only a small part of the Proms - there are far more genres performed including new commissions as occurred at the Last Night as happens every year. I don't really understand why someone waving a flag is labelled a fascist - or does that only apply to English natives?
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Online ChrisJC

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Re: topic split - Last night of the Proms and Patriotism
« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2021, 07:21:08 pm »
....  I don't really understand why someone waving a flag is labelled a fascist.

There's some rather simplistic conclusions being made here,

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Online Fishes

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Re: topic split - Last night of the Proms and Patriotism
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2021, 07:30:19 pm »
I don't really understand why someone waving a flag is labelled a fascist - or does that only apply to English natives?

I'm not sure that anyone here has labelled all  those who wave flags as fascist. Many fascists are flag wavers though.

Offline Mrs Trellis

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Re: topic split - Last night of the Proms and Patriotism
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2021, 07:33:24 pm »
Quote from: Fishes
I'm not sure that anyone here has labelled all  those who wave flags as fascist. Many fascists are flag wavers though.

...and many non fascists are flag wavers.
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Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: topic split - Last night of the Proms and Patriotism
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2021, 08:23:14 pm »
There was a detached house (maybe still there) down a quiet lane near Crowland in the Fens that I used to drive past quite regularly. It was surrounded by an eight foot wooden fence, with similar gate which was adorned with a pro Brexit slogan. Poking up from behind the gate was a 15 foot white flagpole with a St George's flag fluttering on it.

I often wondered what the world view of the people who lived there were. Probably just a nice couple, but it did look a bit 'what's going on there then?' when you drove past.

Offline pwhole

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Re: topic split - Last night of the Proms and Patriotism
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2021, 10:39:03 pm »
Nobody disliking the 'patriotic evening' actually called the audience anything at all - in fact I was quite careful not to, for obvious reasons. My objections were to the predictable nature of the event, not of the people participating. Nor was anyone called racist, fascist, National Front members or anything else. All those terms were offered by the complainants as things we might write, if we were someone else entirely.

Offline Keris82

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Re: topic split - Last night of the Proms and Patriotism
« Reply #57 on: Yesterday at 07:06:37 am »
I just tuned in the telly to watch the news, and caught the last few minutes of the last night of the proms; while the orchestra and singers were well separated, the audience (‘prommers’) seemed to be crammed in like sardines in a tin; another ‘super-spreader event’, or ‘get real, we gotta live with it’?

(Incidentally, and off-topic – am I alone in thinking that all the flag-waving bullshit, the pure arrogance of 'God who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet' etc. is, to put it mildly, inappropriate in the UK of today?)

You have to show proof of double vaccine before they will let you in. Even under 18s have to show proof of negative lateral flow test. The Royal Albert Hall has lost millions in revenue in the last year and even the government grant isn't enough to keep it running. So they have to get as many sales back as possible now or it could be very bad for the hall if they were forced with closure. I know this because I issue tickets through my company where we have a private box

Online Fulk

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Re: topic split - Last night of the Proms and Patriotism
« Reply #58 on: Yesterday at 12:10:40 pm »
Thanks for clarifying that, Keris.

Offline kay

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Re: topic split - Last night of the Proms and Patriotism
« Reply #59 on: Yesterday at 10:53:21 pm »
So, sinker, what do you make of the following 5 words:

                                          'GOD  WHO  MADE  THEE MIGHTY'?

I obviously don't know what the writer had in mind when he or she (probalby the former) wrote them, but the inference is  that the British Empire was somehow ordained by god.

If that's not arrogant bullshit, then what it it?

Arrogant bullshit, but Isn't it the sort of stuff many countries have in their national anthems? Eg

Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.

From the southern seas to the polar edge/Our forests and fields are spread out./You are the only one in the world! You are the only one -
the native land so kept by God!

Thank thy God, Whose power/Willed and wrought the land's salvation/In her darkest hour.

We knew thee of old,/O, divinely restored,/By the lights of thine eyes,/And the light of thy Sword.//To arms, citizens!/Form your battalions/Let’s march, let’s march/That their impure blood/Should water our fields.

Online mudman

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Re: topic split - Last night of the Proms and Patriotism
« Reply #60 on: Today at 09:33:53 am »
So, sinker, what do you make of the following 5 words:

                                          'GOD  WHO  MADE  THEE MIGHTY'?

I obviously don't know what the writer had in mind when he or she (probalby the former) wrote them, but the inference is  that the British Empire was somehow ordained by god.

If that's not arrogant bullshit, then what it it?

Arrogant bullshit, but Isn't it the sort of stuff many countries have in their national anthems? Eg

Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.

From the southern seas to the polar edge/Our forests and fields are spread out./You are the only one in the world! You are the only one -
the native land so kept by God!

Thank thy God, Whose power/Willed and wrought the land's salvation/In her darkest hour.

We knew thee of old,/O, divinely restored,/By the lights of thine eyes,/And the light of thy Sword.//To arms, citizens!/Form your battalions/Let’s march, let’s march/That their impure blood/Should water our fields.

Yep, why are select groups of words pulled out of the original context and held up as examples of how bad people were without considering the original context?
Those five words should  be put back into the context of the song if you wish to understand what they are saying. The line is 'God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet' and when you can see the whole line, you realise that the singer isn't making some statement about being the chosen of God but are exhorting God to grant greater power than that already given. The song is jingoistic, proudful and boastful but it isn't suggesting divine provenance for the people of Britain.

Offline sinker

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Re: topic split - Last night of the Proms and Patriotism
« Reply #61 on: Today at 09:45:09 am »


Yep, why are select groups of words pulled out of the original context and held up as examples of how bad people were without considering the original context?
Those five words should  be put back into the context of the song if you wish to understand what they are saying. The line is 'God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet' and when you can see the whole line, you realise that the singer isn't making some statement about being the chosen of God but are exhorting God to grant greater power than that already given. The song is jingoistic, proudful and boastful but it isn't suggesting divine provenance for the people of Britain.


Common sense, thank you, agree!

It's easy to go back 120 years into the past and put a spin on the context; people, the country and the whole world were very different then. Meanings and contexts get missed up and lost.
Ah, well, now, you see...erm...

 

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