Author Topic: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc  (Read 32925 times)

Offline braveduck

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 598
  • Digging Bucket maker.B.P.C. Little Green Men.
    • http://www.bpc-cave.org.uk
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2009, 05:21:19 pm »
It was probebly an earthquake.There is nothing on the BGS  British earthquake list yet ,but I will keep checking.
Did you hear a second rumble or did you come out too soon?Do you know the approx time?

Offline ditzy

  • The ditzy caving
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1237
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2009, 05:58:21 pm »
bri only heard a noise for a few seconds like falling rocks. i heard the noice for about 5 seconds+ but it was echoing.
brio didnt feel any vibrations in the floor but i was in a diffrent part of the mine to him and i was sat on the floor!
i felt a strond vibration go past me. im not too sure if the vibration started or if the noise started first.

Offline Brains

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2257
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2009, 07:31:07 pm »
Gussing it was about 12 - 12.30 ish, back and changed by 1300. Felt earth tremors before and it felt more like a collapse...

Offline braveduck

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 598
  • Digging Bucket maker.B.P.C. Little Green Men.
    • http://www.bpc-cave.org.uk
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2009, 08:29:42 pm »
OK,may be a collapse,but will keep checking the earthquake web site.
They are not posted up same day allways.
The train like sound does indicate a quake through.

Keith L

  • Guest
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2009, 10:38:07 pm »
I live about a crow-flies mile from Wapping/Cumberland, near High Tor and the Bacon Rake that I think Wapping is on. I wasn't aware of anything around that time, if it was a quake I could have missed it or it could have been local to Wapping.


Offline Brains

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2257
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2009, 05:54:28 pm »
A_R has posted this on Mine-explorer in respnse to Ditzys posting of this collapse...

Quote
As I've posted over on AN I'm pretty sure this was actually a collapse happening in the nearby Royal-Hopping-Tear Breeches mine complex, which is extremely unstable and has seen people killed in it in the past through falling rocks, hence why it's now completely off-limits.

JasonL

  • Guest
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2009, 11:25:35 am »
Nettle pot, from the bottom of Beza, through the crawl and handline to red river passage

It was rather odd.. We haven't read about the bad air in the Descent yet, and we went down, but we were warned by Martin that there was abit of bad air down there. Went down with carbide, and my light became REALLY DIM. The flame was like 1cm or something. Still had loads of rock/water. Walking through from the short squeeze to red river passage was, very odd.. could hardly breathe, and felt like a 23 year old geriatric. Other memebers in the party (from TSG/CUCC as well) complained of similar air gasping experiences. Take heed!!


Online shotlighter

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 746
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2009, 02:03:19 pm »
Also bear in mind that carbide lamps will burn in O2 concentrations that won't support combustion of say a candle. There's a double whammy here, in this condition, the combustion produces carbon monoxide.

Offline marysboy

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 313
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2009, 05:00:35 pm »
Titan - loose anchors

Not much of a post but here goes:

In Titan yesterday, I noticed a couple of loose nuts on the stud-type anchors.  I had a normal 13mm spanner with me but this is much too small so could only do them up hand-tight.  They are:

On approach to the window at head of main shaft: 2nd anchor.
At event horizon rebelay: 3rd from left.

If anyone's going in soon it may be worth taking an adjustable spanner and nipping them up properly.  I noticed neither of the loose nuts were nylon locknuts as found elsewhere in Titan.

Ian.

Ps to mods - would it be worth tidying this thread a little, there's a lot of discussion (?).

Offline Pete K

  • Pete Knight
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1359
  • Peak Instruction, DCMC, DCA, PICA, TSG, DCRO
    • Peak Instruction
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2009, 05:04:36 pm »
Jug Holes instability

Copied from Hitch n' Hike's info site http://www.peakdistrictcaving.info/cavenews.htm

"Jug Holes: Small rock fall
Report From: Daryl Godfrey / Adam Evans.
Report Date: 13/03/2009.
Published: 21/03/2009.

I was telephoned by Richard Saunders and John Buckle (local cavers) to inform me that a large boulder " the size of a football" had fallen down the upper entrance (climbable shaft) while they were exiting today (Friday 13th - Superstition - optional). Some moments later - I received another telephone call from Gary Noble at Derbyshire Youth Service to ask the procedure for reporting 'Dangerous Ground' Gary had observed a large fracture and obvious destabilsation extendeing back to the large boulder yesterday ( Thursday 12th). Gary noted the that it looked likely that it was ready to subside. Evidently he was correct! It is now obvious that this area of 'Jug Holes Lower' is in need of some attention / investigation. It is perhaps prudent to give this site a wide birth for the time being until DCA / PICA have investigated and either given assurances or untertaken the necessary work to stabilse this problem."

Offline Jenny P

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 553
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2009, 05:26:37 pm »
For your information, I have circulated the following message to all DCA clubs:

Long Rake Mine, Youlgreave - Danger!

Some cavers recently visited this mine and found it full of fumes, almost certainly from an engine working on the surface.  Please note that this mine is part of a working site on private land and there is no agreed access while this is so. You are urged to ensure that all cavers are made aware of the situation.

Jenny Potts,
Hon. Sec. DCA

Offline Iain Barker

  • player
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2009, 05:51:09 pm »
Long Rake (Derbyshire Aggregates) are now aware of illegal trips into thier mine thanks to posts on this site. As Access Officer for DCA I've got to sort this out; cheers all. Just to make it abundantly clear -

LONG RAKE IS A WORKING SITE AND ACCESS IS FORBIDDEN. A TRIP INTO THIS MINE CONSTITUTES AN ILLEGAL ACT AND DCA DOES NOT CONDONE ANY SUCH ACTIVITIES

If someone gets hurt down there,  every landowner who (after much trouble and negotiation from DCA) grants us access to the caves and mines on thier land will shut them with immediate effect, it's what they're waiting for.
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me -
than a full frontal lobotomy".

Offline Pete K

  • Pete Knight
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1359
  • Peak Instruction, DCMC, DCA, PICA, TSG, DCRO
    • Peak Instruction
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2009, 08:36:49 pm »
P8 - LARGE ROCK MOVEMENT BELOW FAR FLATS PITCH / ABOVE STREAMWAY

This afternoon myself and a friend were up in the Flats area of P8 and as we made our way through the tight crawly/climb down to the far (Flats?) pitch I noticed a couple of breeze-block sized rocks moving underfoot. We shifted those back to a safe place but, as we rolled the last one off, the rock I was stood on began to sink and rolled off down towards the streamway (cue the need for new pants). This rock was about a metre across and is similar in size to a large 4x4 tyre! It made it a few metres down the rift and stuck. Bloomin good bang! It currently sits solid in the rift but it is unsupported and pinned in by a small nobble of rock. We did our best to shift it down to the streamway but it is too heavy. I recon it won't go much further but it has potential to drop onto anyone below. The rock would land in the stream on the bend just after the obstruction you have to climb over on route to the 1st pitch.

I imagine it would be a good idea to take a big hammer to it and drop it safely down into the stream, perhaps on a quiet evening!

DCA have been informed.

Pete
Darkside CMC/Edale YHA

Offline ttxela

  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 796
  • WCMS, PDMHS
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2009, 09:18:01 am »
Jug Holes instability

Copied from Hitch n' Hike's info site http://www.peakdistrictcaving.info/cavenews.htm

"Jug Holes: Small rock fall
Report From: Daryl Godfrey / Adam Evans.
Report Date: 13/03/2009.
Published: 21/03/2009.

I was telephoned by Richard Saunders and John Buckle (local cavers) to inform me that a large boulder " the size of a football" had fallen down the upper entrance (climbable shaft) while they were exiting today (Friday 13th - Superstition - optional). Some moments later - I received another telephone call from Gary Noble at Derbyshire Youth Service to ask the procedure for reporting 'Dangerous Ground' Gary had observed a large fracture and obvious destabilsation extendeing back to the large boulder yesterday ( Thursday 12th). Gary noted the that it looked likely that it was ready to subside. Evidently he was correct! It is now obvious that this area of 'Jug Holes Lower' is in need of some attention / investigation. It is perhaps prudent to give this site a wide birth for the time being until DCA / PICA have investigated and either given assurances or untertaken the necessary work to stabilse this problem."



Anyone know what the current situation is with Jug Holes?
If you've been affected by any of the issues raised in this post you can contact our helpline on 0800........

Offline JB

  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 906
  • Eldon Pothole Club
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2009, 07:31:31 am »
Winnats Head - Downstream Pitches

Thursday 28th May 2009

The downstream pitches in Winnats Head Cave are being equipped with eco anchors. This is the set of three 'down pitches' on the far side of the Sewer. This work will be finished soon but cavers should avoid the downstream pitches in Winnats Head Cave whilst the work is going on. Some old Spits have been removed and the eco anchor routes aren't yet complete.

I will post on here when the work is finished.

The 'up pitches' (i.e. the fixed rope immediately after the Sewer and the series of pitches leading to Wigwam Aven) are not affected.

Jules Barrett
DCA
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 07:45:10 am by JB »

Offline rhychydwr1

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3161
  • Russian, the best
    • http://www.showcaves.com
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2009, 08:55:54 am »
Nettle pot, from the bottom of Beza, through the crawl and handline to red river passage

It was rather odd.. We haven't read about the bad air in the Descent yet, and we went down, but we were warned by Martin that there was abit of bad air down there. Went down with carbide, and my light became REALLY DIM. The flame was like 1cm or something. Still had loads of rock/water. Walking through from the short squeeze to red river passage was, very odd.. could hardly breathe, and felt like a 23 year old geriatric. Other memebers in the party (from TSG/CUCC as well) complained of similar air gasping experiences. Take heed!!



This sounds really serious.  I think you were close to death.

Offline Pete K

  • Pete Knight
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1359
  • Peak Instruction, DCMC, DCA, PICA, TSG, DCRO
    • Peak Instruction
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2009, 05:57:43 pm »
Original Post:

P8 - LARGE ROCK MOVEMENT BELOW FAR FLATS PITCH / ABOVE STREAMWAY

This afternoon myself and a friend were up in the Flats area of P8 and as we made our way through the tight crawly/climb down to the far (Flats?) pitch I noticed a couple of breeze-block sized rocks moving underfoot. We shifted those back to a safe place but, as we rolled the last one off, the rock I was stood on began to sink and rolled off down towards the streamway (cue the need for new pants). This rock was about a metre across and is similar in size to a large 4x4 tyre! It made it a few metres down the rift and stuck. Bloomin good bang! It currently sits solid in the rift but it is unsupported and pinned in by a small nobble of rock. We did our best to shift it down to the streamway but it is too heavy. I recon it won't go much further but it has potential to drop onto anyone below. The rock would land in the stream on the bend just after the obstruction you have to climb over on route to the 1st pitch.

A team of us from the Darkside CMC dropped down P8 this lunchtime to tackle the rock. After much hauling, pushing and swearing we realized it was far firmer wedged in than was first though. 3 of us could not deliberately move it more than an inch or so. In the end the best option was to clear any other loose rocks from the area and place a small number of large rocks in a way that would further pin the main one in.
So in short, the rock is still in situ but it would take an army of determined cavers to shift it. There are far more dodgy looking rocks in the area to worry about!
It may take a while for the smaller bits of gravel and choss to settle or tumble into the streamway. The whole area is rather loose anyway so care should be taken whilst in the Flats area of the cave. Hopefully there will be no other issues.
Thanks to Faye O'Brian and Beth Brown (and her swine flu germs).
Cheers,
Pete Knight

Darkside CMC \ Edale YHA

Offline jasonbirder

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 726
  • Orpheus Caving Club
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2009, 04:10:44 pm »
Are the downstream pitches in Winnats head accessible now? Or still in the process of being re-bolted...
Are the spits usable if its not been re-bolted?

Offline Cap'n Chris

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 12180
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2009, 05:07:59 pm »
PINK RESIN:

It fractures a lot, doesn't it?

Offline JB

  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 906
  • Eldon Pothole Club
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2009, 10:50:06 pm »
Are the downstream pitches in Winnats head accessible now? Or still in the process of being re-bolted...
Are the spits usable if its not been re-bolted?

All P-bolted. I'll PM you what I think should be the right rope lengths etc.

Jules.

Online Gollum

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 229
  • I don't do high, wet, tight or dark
    • Twin Peaks Outdoor Activities
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2009, 06:57:41 pm »
Does anyone know anywhere in Derbyshire that we can cave without experiencing bad air :confused:
Twin Peaks Outdoor Activities
Quality Instruction in the Peak District

Offline JB

  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 906
  • Eldon Pothole Club
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2009, 03:53:32 pm »
Winnats Head - Downstream Pitches

The re-equipping of the downstream pitches in Winnats Head Cave is finished:
 
Pitch 1
Rope: 35m
Rigging: 6 eco anchors, 3 tapes, 1 bolt and hanger for 8mm Spit
Notes: Easy traverse to pitch-head. Descend past two deviations (second one from 8mm Spit) to rebelay and the floor.
 
Pitch 2
Rope: 30m
Rigging: 3 eco anchors, 1 tape
Notes: Easy traverse to pitch-head. Descend past a deviation to floor.
 
Pitch 3
Rope: 30m
Rigging: 4 eco anchors, 1 tape
Notes: Traverse to pitch-head. Descend past a deviation to floor.

A good trip but those boulder chokes need care and the downstream pitches are wet so best avoided if it's very wet!

Jules.

Offline Servo

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2009, 01:59:12 pm »
Suicide Cave - Loose Bolt at top of Boulder Ramp

At the top of the boulder ramp in the main chamber the Y hang back-up bolt on the right hand wall when stood on the balcony is loose, the stone is breaking away from the bolt and has quite a bit of movemet. To make sure we backed-up to one of the boulders.

Offline Pete K

  • Pete Knight
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1359
  • Peak Instruction, DCMC, DCA, PICA, TSG, DCRO
    • Peak Instruction
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2009, 09:53:10 pm »
Suicide Cave - Loose Bolt at top of Boulder Ramp

At the top of the boulder ramp in the main chamber the Y hang back-up bolt on the right hand wall when stood on the balcony is loose, the stone is breaking away from the bolt and has quite a bit of movemet. To make sure we backed-up to one of the boulders.

I think most people may know that as the 2nd pitch (from the entrance). The bolt you mean is a Petzl Collinox (?) resin one, with the resin badly applied/cracking. Needs pulling out.

IMO there is no need for it as there are a number of large threads and spikes in the nearby boulders anyway.

Offline Servo

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2009, 11:46:48 pm »
Suicide Cave - Loose Bolt at top of Boulder Ramp

At the top of the boulder ramp in the main chamber the Y hang back-up bolt on the right hand wall when stood on the balcony is loose, the stone is breaking away from the bolt and has quite a bit of movemet. To make sure we backed-up to one of the boulders.

I think most people may know that as the 2nd pitch (from the entrance). The bolt you mean is a Petzl Collinox (?) resin one, with the resin badly applied/cracking. Needs pulling out.

IMO there is no need for it as there are a number of large threads and spikes in the nearby boulders anyway.

That'll be the one. Would agree with you, more than enough boulders to choose from.