Author Topic: Inspirational women cavers in Britian  (Read 4488 times)

Offline cavemanmike

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2021, 07:50:55 am »
 And there lies the problem. It a shame you felt honoured keris, you are as capable as any caver in your company and should feel equal to those around you

Offline Ali M

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2021, 01:02:06 pm »
I was recently the first female to go down an undisclosed dig site in South Wales. I was quite surprised to hear this but honoured at the same time to be given the opportunity. It really was an incredible day helping pass scaffold poles through the cave to the end!  :dig:

Keris - you are extremely welcome to join us at Cheddar Hill Dig on Mendip, any Saturday. Just send me a PM.  :)

Online mikem

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2021, 06:21:12 pm »
Keri isn't a digger, so why shouldn't she feel honoured to be trusted into somebody else's dig...?

Offline Loki

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2021, 06:38:12 pm »
If a person of colour tells you racism is a thing, don't tell them it isn't. If a woman tells you it's necessary to have female role models, don't tell them it's not.
For me you just hit the nail on the head there. Bravo and we’ll put.
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Offline Pegasus

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2021, 08:05:22 pm »
If a person of colour tells you racism is a thing, don't tell them it isn't. If a woman tells you it's necessary to have female role models, don't tell them it's not.
For me you just hit the nail on the head there. Bravo and we’ll put.

Yes, I thought that too  :)

Offline Keris82

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #55 on: November 07, 2021, 02:09:00 pm »
I was recently the first female to go down an undisclosed dig site in South Wales. I was quite surprised to hear this but honoured at the same time to be given the opportunity. It really was an incredible day helping pass scaffold poles through the cave to the end!  :dig:

Keris - you are extremely welcome to join us at Cheddar Hill Dig on Mendip, any Saturday. Just send me a PM.  :)

Thank you, that's very kind! I will get in touch next time we're down 😊

Offline Keris82

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2021, 02:10:22 pm »
Keri isn't a digger, so why shouldn't she feel honoured to be trusted into somebody else's dig...?

Yes that's right, it's more the reason that it was someone else's dig and not many non diggers have been there. And it just so happened, no other women have

Offline Ali M

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #57 on: November 07, 2021, 04:21:01 pm »
I was recently the first female to go down an undisclosed dig site in South Wales. I was quite surprised to hear this but honoured at the same time to be given the opportunity. It really was an incredible day helping pass scaffold poles through the cave to the end!  :dig:

Keris - you are extremely welcome to join us at Cheddar Hill Dig on Mendip, any Saturday. Just send me a PM.  :)

Thank you, that's very kind! I will get in touch next time we're down 😊


Keri - we would love to see you. Plenty of mud to move about, have a go at the workface if you want and we even provide cake and freshly made tea or coffee.  ;D

Offline caving_fox

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2021, 09:22:07 am »
Women have been caving since the very earliest days of the sport (I don't mean when it was a necessity), but it just wasn't reported - the first UK underground casualty was female (that did make the news).

To add to the lists of un-interviewable cavers - Casteret's wife, whose name I've forgotten if I ever knew  :-[ she accompanied him in many trips, and in one memorable passage assisted him climbing a boulder when he stood on her shoulders whilst wearing hobnail boots.
If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.

Online mikem

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2021, 09:34:09 am »
Elisabeth (articles don't seem to give her pre marriage surname - Elisabeth Madeleine Raymonde Martin). She died in 1940, shortly after giving birth to their fifth child (Norbert lived until 1987). Some nice pics here:
https://norbertcasteret.net/elisabeth-casteret

Mabel Binks was the fatality in Alum Pot:
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/heritage-and-retro/heritage/beckoning-darkness-history-cave-deaths-yorkshire-dales-1754499
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 09:57:31 am by mikem »

Offline bagpuss

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #60 on: November 08, 2021, 10:23:02 am »
I follow your reasononing here A_Northerner (and agree with you to some extent).

It's just that the three main clubs I'm a member of (two in the Dales and one in the Peak District) each has a significant number of female members nowadays and no-one even thinks about this; it's just normal to us. To me, we've gone beyond the days when it was unusual [to some] to be on a caving trip with a female.


Both the clubs I'm in have significantly more male members and I've often been the only female on a trip. The same goes for a visit to the Hunters, often more Men than women (at least on the occasions I've visited) I'd also highlight Ali Moody as a role model, I've found her really helpful around cave knowledge and being supportive in arranging access to caves etc.

Online pwhole

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #61 on: November 08, 2021, 11:08:56 am »
JC Burrows' wife accompanied him on his mining shoots in Cornish tin mines - in the top photo she's the figure on the left, in the...erm...dress, and what looks like a foreman's jacket. This is at the 70 fathom level...hardcore :)

https://min-eng.blogspot.com/2015/05/an-appreciation-of-jc-burrow-pioneering.html

(Off-topic aside, but Photo 3 in that set is still my all-time favourite underground shot, from any era - it's just a masterpiece.)


Offline Keris82

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #62 on: November 08, 2021, 11:15:00 am »


Both the clubs I'm in have significantly more male members and I've often been the only female on a trip. The same goes for a visit to the Hunters, often more Men than women (at least on the occasions I've visited) I'd also highlight Ali Moody as a role model, I've found her really helpful around cave knowledge and being supportive in arranging access to caves etc.

Same here, I'm usually the only female on most caving trips too. There are lots of other females in the clubs I'm a member of but amongst my group of friends it's mostly men

Online pwhole

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2021, 11:19:39 am »
Both the clubs I'm in have significantly more male members and I've often been the only female on a trip.

The TSG's current membership is 67 male and 25 female, which I think is a slighly lower proportion than a couple of years ago, when I think it was exactly 33% female. That doesn't seem so bad to me but I would obviously prefer 51% female ideally, matching real life, and I have no idea on other clubs' counts. One male member, recently joined, is only 7 months old, so perhaps 66 would be more accurate if we're talking currently active cavers :)

Online mikem

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #64 on: November 08, 2021, 11:26:21 am »
Youll probably need to knock some off the top end too if you want currently active...

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #65 on: November 08, 2021, 12:20:02 pm »
Youll probably need to knock some off the top end too if you want currently active...

Not in my case!   ;)

Offline Tseralo

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #66 on: November 08, 2021, 09:48:30 pm »
Youll probably need to knock some off the top end too if you want currently active...

A lot of our older members do more caving and carry bigger loads than the youngsters, one septuagenarian was carrying bottles for me a few weeks ago.

Offline Rob

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #67 on: November 08, 2021, 10:29:48 pm »
I've really enjoyed reading this thread. Very interesting and enlightening at times. Once again proving to me the value of a forum that encourages open discussion in a reflective  manner (especially compared with instantaneous, relatively anonymous commenting on social media/etc).

Living with a strong and capable female caver for many years may make me think i understand the challenges of female cavers, but i really don't. They are diverse, subjective, personal. Just being aware of that is humbling.
The end is where we start....

Online mikem

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2021, 07:13:00 am »
A lot of our older members do more caving and carry bigger loads than the youngsters, one septuagenarian was carrying bottles for me a few weeks ago.
Yes, we're definitely staying caving fit longer than we did even 20 years ago, but retired cavers also tend to remain members of their clubs.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #69 on: November 09, 2021, 07:31:17 am »
A lot of our older members do more caving and carry bigger loads than the youngsters, one septuagenarian was carrying bottles for me a few weeks ago.
Yes, we're definitely staying caving fit longer than we did even 20 years ago, but retired cavers also tend to remain members of their clubs.

They're often the most prolific diggers too, as they're no longer stuck at work every day, having already done their "porridge".

Online mrodoc

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2021, 10:07:31 am »
Pitlamp's right. I think the other facet of being older is that one develops patience - something that is required on a long term dig along with dogged determination to see it through to a definite conclusion. We have several digs that are getting beyond us oldsters but have considerable potential. One of our current digs was started more than 50 years ago and has been revisited on a number of occasions. Perhaps we can push it to a conclusion during the current assault!

Offline yrammy

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2021, 03:20:48 pm »
I would like to add Jenny Potts. Her breathe of knowledge about caving is matched by her experience all over the world. No longer active as a caver but her work for the DCA, Orpheus PC, BCA, BCRA and the British Caving Library  is exceptional.

Mary

Offline prahja

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Re: Inspirational women cavers in Britian
« Reply #72 on: November 10, 2021, 06:19:36 pm »
I think caving is one of the few sports where gender isnt a major issue - I’ve been on many social/digging/diving/camping trips and expeditions with female cavers and gender has never been mentioned or been an issue.... obviously speaking from a male perspective but I’ve discussed this with my partner and this is her opinion as well....
You only have to look at Mossy Powell, etc.... I think caving is one of the most egalitarian sports around....
I also agree there are lots of inspirational female cavers but I think they are inspirational for what they do and achieve as cavers, rather than being female.... I think highlighting them in interviews etc is great as role models to bring more cavers into the sport but I also think my perception of caving is also pretty much right and also worth highlighting.....
(I’ll probably get flamed for this but I think it’s true....)

 

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