Author Topic: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended  (Read 4393 times)

Offline zzzzzzed

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2021, 03:39:16 pm »
NRW appears to be in breach of contract due to not giving us 6 weeks notice of termination in the absence of any identification of a breach by CAL and proper notice being given of that.  They terminated the agreement verbally in a Zoom meeting which was unexpected.  This has not been confirmed in writing yet and it is not clear NRW ever intends to do so.  We will follow this up.

If you haven’t received 6 weeks notice in writing then the contract hasn’t ended yet.  The employee of NRW who told you that the contract had been terminated may not have authority to make that decision.

Is it worth contacting Dawn Bowden MS,  Deputy Minister for Arts and Sport and asking how this fots in the the Welsh Governments Healthy Wales plan 
https://gov.wales/healthy-weight-healthy-wales-delivery-plan-2021-2022-html

In it National Priority Area 2 is ‘Creating active environments and spaces to enable us to move more’.
http://www.wales.nhs.uk/documents/100121activewalesen.pdf

If the people who made this decision start receiving questions from ministers they might sit up and take notice.

After all NRW mission statement says ‘Our purpose is to ensure that the natural resources of Wales are sustainably maintained, enhanced and USED, now and in the future’

Offline Stones

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2021, 05:06:25 pm »
I believe NRW had vans parked outside the entrance to a certain mine in the Gwydyr forest  that was under the CAL agreement over the weekend.

Offline Ian Adams

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2021, 06:09:10 pm »
If you haven’t received 6 weeks notice in writing then the contract hasn’t ended yet.  The employee of NRW who told you that the contract had been terminated may not have authority to make that decision.


I am quite sure "Judge Judy" would agree with that. Both are perfectly valid. I would imagine you (CAL) don't want to antagonise the wasp's nest by pulling either of those chains but they are certainly fall back positions ....

Ian
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2021, 06:11:45 pm »
I believe NRW had vans parked outside the entrance to a certain mine in the Gwydyr forest  that was under the CAL agreement over the weekend.

Do the vans have lettering on them ?
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Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2021, 08:25:32 pm »
If true.. people might use "those tactics". Short term no permission makes things more entertaining, but it's far from long term progress. And anyone getting caught could further sour an already unfortunate situation. Great shame I was hoping to pay a visit to one of those sites before Christmas. I can't say I will now...
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2021, 09:46:16 pm »
If true.. people might use "those tactics". Short term no permission makes things more entertaining, but it's far from long term progress. And anyone getting caught could further sour an already unfortunate situation. Great shame I was hoping to pay a visit to one of those sites before Christmas. I can't say I will now...

Watch our videos and imagine you are there LOL   ;)
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Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2021, 01:58:19 am »
Could do with a closed mike channel for discussing this.

Offline Tomferry

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2021, 08:00:45 am »
Could do with a closed mike channel for discussing this.


Agreed would be handy !

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2021, 11:45:15 am »
Could do with a closed mike channel for discussing this.

Could email people , most have there email to be seen
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Offline Stuart France

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #59 on: December 18, 2021, 12:45:40 pm »
Just to update everyone.  CAL wrote a firm letter to the NRW staffer involved in the mines matter copied to their Chief Executive.

NRW has now accepted that "[the landowners have] continued to act [since 2015] as if both licences remain in place and so their terms should continue to be followed including the requirement to give 6 weeks' notice [in writing] if any party wishes for the licences to end.  I hope that allays your concerns regarding the status of both licence agreements and will respond in the New Year on the outstanding points in your letter."

I think this is code for the CAL mine access agreements still being operative and that NRW will come back to us with some proposals in 2022 which we hope will be practical, constructive and mutually beneficial.

Offline Ian Adams

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #60 on: December 18, 2021, 01:51:08 pm »
Splendid.

Excellent work Stuart (and Dave and Roy)  ;D

Ian
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #61 on: December 18, 2021, 05:25:42 pm »
It will save me editing loads of videos that's for sure .  :blink:

Are sites off bounds in the meantime ?   :-\

Paul
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Offline royfellows

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #62 on: December 18, 2021, 06:10:14 pm »
No, its business as usual.

The agreement had never actually "ended". Good old fashioned cock up, but not of our making.
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #63 on: December 18, 2021, 06:30:36 pm »
 :bounce:   :beer2:
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Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #64 on: December 18, 2021, 07:30:33 pm »
OK, I might just be able to return and get a refund on the ghillie suit and balaclava if I'm quick enough
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #65 on: December 19, 2021, 04:43:17 pm »
OK, I might just be able to return and get a refund on the ghillie suit and balaclava if I'm quick enough

Must admit I did have to google a " Ghillie Suit " it made me chuckle   :lol:  :thumbsup:
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Offline royfellows

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #66 on: December 19, 2021, 06:00:32 pm »
As worn by best snipers. Food for thought there.
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #67 on: December 19, 2021, 06:34:28 pm »
Roy

I wonder if all are reading this because of the title ?

Maybe another post to say  The CAL agreement with NRW is Back on Again !
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Offline royfellows

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2021, 06:49:00 pm »
Dave Tyson is our Co secretary who puts out the news releases. He will probably read this and decide.
It not really a case though of "back on again", it never was "off"
 :lol:
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #69 on: December 19, 2021, 07:01:57 pm »
Dave Tyson is our Co secretary who puts out the news releases. He will probably read this and decide.
It not really a case though of "back on again", it never was "off"
 :lol:

ok but lose the word ended
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Offline mikem

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #70 on: December 19, 2021, 07:46:56 pm »
People are reading it because new posts have been added saying it's back on again - if nobody commented then it would disappear from the home page.

Offline Stuart France

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #71 on: December 19, 2021, 09:01:27 pm »
The above comment is unhelpful.

I simply imagined that forum users may wish to know from my recent annoucement that NRW has now, in effect, acknowledged that its verbal termination of our contract via Zoom which required 6 weeks written notice was unlawful, i.e. their access agreement termination attempt had no effect and so it continues business as usual at the mines.

Having done 2 years now on the CRoW JR, I have acquired quite a lot of experience that I would rather have forgone as to government and their departments' conduct.

Anyone who has not dealt at government level in a legal and commercial concept probably has little idea as to the standards of behaviour they can expect.

I dare say the caving JR has given NRW cause to reflect.




Offline Dave Tyson

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Re: The CAL agreement with NRW has ended
« Reply #72 on: December 19, 2021, 10:44:08 pm »
Well I guess the best thing would be for the mods to close this thread to stop further posts and it will fade away in due course.

I guess could start a new thread saying 'CAL agreement - business as usual' but I am reluctant to this note says it all...

People can continue to register to access to CAL sites (and these requests will be valid till end 2022) and provide details of their trips as required by the agreement. The CAL site,
www.caveaccess.co.uk, has been updated to reflect that the agreement is still running. It may be that there will be some changes in 2022 and we will report these on the CAL site
and post a note on UK.Caving (and aditnow if it's up and running!)


Dave


Topic locked as requested
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 07:56:36 am by paul »

 

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