Author Topic: Question for petrol experts  (Read 1542 times)

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2021, 02:19:27 pm »
I think a lot of other countries (example Australia?) have use 91 grade petrol (which I think is 10% ethanol) for some years now. They have bigger engines though and maybe fuel lines etc that are compatible, my inlaws' cars' are typically larger V engines and 4wd due to bush driving. I haven't been out there for years but last time I teased them about their watered down petrol but they drove fine on multi day journeys and unmetalled roads

No help with the original strimmer question, sorry, but for people with larger engines anyway: they don't seem to suffer from pinking problems.


If your old enough it used to be 2/3 and 4 star fuel my dad use to put petrol and paraffin in FFS. Another thing on the eco topic which is what the E10 is all about , why are car companies allowed to send cars out with a map on the ECU that is not the best for economy ?? :-\  every single car on the road with an ECU can be remapped for better economy my Caddy was done and I get 10 more to the gallon and my wifes Mini gets 7 more to the gallon this would be a real difference to emissions, makes one wonder who does control things ???  :'( 
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2021, 02:22:07 pm »
Does Not have to be BP Ultimate any premium grade 98 octane fuel is the same , Esso Supreme , Shell V Power . Stay away from supermarket brands that is poor quality fuel. I have a friend that drives petrol tankers and he told me .
Not so, and an oft-repeated fallacy. "Which?" Debunk the idea, and although premium brands can contain additional additives, it,'s largely marketing speil, there being no evidence damage is caused by running on the supermarket stuff.


My mate was talking about the lack of cleaning additives why is was not so good for your engine not performing, it also stands to reason that a higher octane fuel performs better than a lower one thats why a rocket has different fuel
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Online ChrisJC

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2021, 02:40:33 pm »
I have to say, I have pretty much always used the cheapest fuel I can find (as I buy quite a bit of it).

I have also dismantled a few engines in my time, and I have never seen one that is 'gunked up'. Petrol is an excellent cleaning agent, so anything downstream of the fuel entry point is clean save for a bit of staining from the crankcase ventilation system.

If you engine is gunked up, the problem does not lie with the fuel, but a knackered engine.

It also (in my opinion) makes this latest fad for having your engine internally cleaned a complete waste of money! Snake oil. etc.

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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2021, 02:42:18 pm »
I have to say, I have pretty much always used the cheapest fuel I can find (as I buy quite a bit of it).

I have also dismantled a few engines in my time, and I have never seen one that is 'gunked up'. Petrol is an excellent cleaning agent, so anything downstream of the fuel entry point is clean save for a bit of staining from the crankcase ventilation system.

If you engine is gunked up, the problem does not lie with the fuel, but a knackered engine.

It also (in my opinion) makes this latest fad for having your engine internally cleaned a complete waste of money! Snake oil. etc.

Chris.


Unless its a Diesel Chris then it makes a big difference , but then we have changed the fuel    :lol: :lol:
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Offline paul

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2021, 02:52:17 pm »
Does Not have to be BP Ultimate any premium grade 98 octane fuel is the same , Esso Supreme , Shell V Power . Stay away from supermarket brands that is poor quality fuel. I have a friend that drives petrol tankers and he told me .
Not so, and an oft-repeated fallacy. "Which?" Debunk the idea, and although premium brands can contain additional additives, it,'s largely marketing speil, there being no evidence damage is caused by running on the supermarket stuff.


Exactly. There are only a few fuel pipelines from few refineries to few distribution centres with many tankers from many suppliers all driving to and from these few distribution centres to many petrol stations...
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2021, 03:01:56 pm »
Does Not have to be BP Ultimate any premium grade 98 octane fuel is the same , Esso Supreme , Shell V Power . Stay away from supermarket brands that is poor quality fuel. I have a friend that drives petrol tankers and he told me .
Not so, and an oft-repeated fallacy. "Which?" Debunk the idea, and although premium brands can contain additional additives, it,'s largely marketing speil, there being no evidence damage is caused by running on the supermarket stuff.


Exactly. There are only a few fuel pipelines from few refineries to few distribution centres with many tankers from many suppliers all driving to and from these few distribution centres to many petrol stations...

Ha Ha thats exactly what my tanker driver mate said most of them get the fuel out of the same vat
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Offline sinker

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2021, 03:05:40 pm »
Does Not have to be BP Ultimate any premium grade 98 octane fuel is the same , Esso Supreme , Shell V Power . Stay away from supermarket brands that is poor quality fuel. I have a friend that drives petrol tankers and he told me .
Not so, and an oft-repeated fallacy. "Which?" Debunk the idea, and although premium brands can contain additional additives, it,'s largely marketing speil, there being no evidence damage is caused by running on the supermarket stuff.


Exactly. There are only a few fuel pipelines from few refineries to few distribution centres with many tankers from many suppliers all driving to and from these few distribution centres to many petrol stations...

Ha Ha thats exactly what my tanker driver mate said most of them get the fuel out of the same vat


But the additive dosing is done in the tanker, not in the refinery....tanker driver would know that....

Every manufacturer's product is different; some more than others.


Ah, well, now, you see...erm...

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2021, 03:23:23 pm »
Does Not have to be BP Ultimate any premium grade 98 octane fuel is the same , Esso Supreme , Shell V Power . Stay away from supermarket brands that is poor quality fuel. I have a friend that drives petrol tankers and he told me .
Not so, and an oft-repeated fallacy. "Which?" Debunk the idea, and although premium brands can contain additional additives, it,'s largely marketing speil, there being no evidence damage is caused by running on the supermarket stuff.


Exactly. There are only a few fuel pipelines from few refineries to few distribution centres with many tankers from many suppliers all driving to and from these few distribution centres to many petrol stations...

Ha Ha thats exactly what my tanker driver mate said most of them get the fuel out of the same vat


But the additive dosing is done in the tanker, not in the refinery....tanker driver would know that....

Every manufacturer's product is different; some more than others.







If memory serves me correct you are a Texaco fan ?
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Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2021, 03:36:20 pm »
.. every single car on the road with an ECU can be remapped for better economy my Caddy was done and I get 10 more to the gallon and my wifes Mini gets 7 more to the gallon this would be a real difference to emissions, makes one wonder who does control things ???  :'(
The version of the story I heard, was that the US government puts almost impossibly difficult restrictions on imported cars but not domestic. I'm in no way justifying shameful tricks, but in  order to meet the requirements and be able to sell models into US, manufacturers used weird tuning maps and defeat protocols to falsify emissions in tests. It's no surprise that pretty much all the car manufacturers wanting to sell into US all suddenly adopted these tactics at the same time, just some got caught out earlier and more publicly than others, what I heard is the car industry feels hard done by and they were forced into it --> and the US anti competitive almost impossible restrictions are what is controlling this (re: weird engine maps and defeat technology). That's their self justification anyhow, which had been held in private until it leaked out. Can't confirm the accuracy of any of this, interesting story though...
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Offline paul

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2021, 03:41:22 pm »
Quote
But the additive dosing is done in the tanker, not in the refinery....tanker driver would know that....

Every manufacturer's product is different; some more than others.

Only the "Premium" fuels have the different additives. For the non-"Premium" fuels then what you get from a supermarket will not be any different from named brands (Esso, Texaco, etc.).
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Offline Fishes

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2021, 04:12:37 pm »
Some countries use petrol containing up to 25% ethanol and it doesn't seem to cause major issues for them . I have to wonder if the "ethanol is bad" information is at least in part promoted by oil producers.

Online ChrisJC

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2021, 04:21:33 pm »
E85 is commonly sold, even E100 in some places:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2021, 04:51:08 pm »
E85 is commonly sold, even E100 in some places:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

Chris.


Now thats interesting reading   :thumbsup:
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Offline sinker

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2021, 10:19:15 pm »
Quote
But the additive dosing is done in the tanker, not in the refinery....tanker driver would know that....

Every manufacturer's product is different; some more than others.

Only the "Premium" fuels have the different additives. For the non-"Premium" fuels then what you get from a supermarket will not be any different from named brands (Esso, Texaco, etc.).

Not correct; sorry. "Basic" Esso is different to "basic" Texaco is different to "basic" Tesco or "basic " Asda.

Ah, well, now, you see...erm...

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2021, 08:19:42 am »
Sadly I'm driving a very gradually failing old Vauxhall not a Ferrari (or sometimes the Wife's 16yo Fiat Panda - both apparently E10 compliant). Got to be honest, that subtle performance edge that premium fuels supposedly gives is lost on me. So as long as the fuel doesn't break the car, it's all pretty academic for me.
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Online PeteHall

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2021, 08:53:50 am »
Got to be honest, that subtle performance edge that premium fuels supposedly gives is lost on me.

I once did a bit of a (not very scientific) test to see whether it was worth the extra cost of premium petrol in terms of improved MPG. I had driven my wife's Renault Clio from Bristol to Durham on regular petrol and recorded my MPG for the journey. Before I returned, I filled up with premium petrol and made the same long steady journey the other way and recorded my MPG.

My theory was that over two long and more or less identical journeys, I could work out a comparable £ per mile for both regular and premium petrol.

As it was, I never bothered working out the cost per mile, as the MPG on the return journey was identical; the premium fuel made no difference at all to my fuel economy.

Online Tomferry

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2021, 09:36:18 am »
The last time I worked my mpg out for the 1987 Landrover 110 2.5na was 18mpg to go from Northamptonshire to Conwy.

I have tried Asda ,bp and shell  they all get inbetween 16-20mpg depending on the journey I have never noticed a single bit of difference.

According to me it’s still the best engine Landrover ever built !  :o

Online Speleofish

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2021, 11:52:53 am »
Years ago, I tried it in my Saab. I got an approximate 5% improvement in mpg, a negligible difference in acceleration and a 10% increase in petrol bills. The Saab then lost an argument with a white van and I switched to a Honda Accord. Premium fuel made no difference at all (apart from the increase in bills). Unless the additives make a significant difference to the life of your engine, I don't see the point.

Offline aricooperdavis

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2021, 12:29:57 pm »
I remember doing a bit of research on this when I learned to drive, but there seems to be very little hard evidence about premium fuel use and a lot of personal preference.

The first complexity is what is meant by premium fuel. If you're just talking octane then you should use the fuel recommended by the manufacturer because your engine is designed to be combusting fuel at a certain temperature. So, as expected, using too low octane fuel can reduce performance and fuel efficiency, but so can using too high octane fuel!

Whether or not the additives make a difference is even harder to research, because each one is different and most of the research is funded by the manufacturers and not released in full. There's a 2016 report from AAA which suggests that using fuels without additives can be detrimental to performance and longevity, but the authorship conflict of interest makes me doubt its value.

For me, I'll happily put the cheapest possible fuel (of the appropriate octane) in my car, because pulling away from traffic lights doesn't need the extra 2% bhp that even the creme-de-la-creme of petrol can give, and I'd rather replace my intake valves 1 month earlier than give Shell/Esso/BP a penny more than I have to.

Offline ttxela2

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2021, 01:18:36 pm »
Annoyingly my motorcycle isn't on the published government list. Despite having bought it brand new this year the maker won't release definitive advice saying it's Ok to use E10. The best I've seen is a rather wooly statement saying it 'should' be ok but 'most owners will prefer to use the best fuel available'.

Whatever that means..... I wonder if they are hedging their bets in terms of warranty claims 'well you didn't use an approved fuel...'

Fortunately it's a pretty frugal machine so filling it with premium doesn't cost a significant amount more.

I wonder how long premium fuels will be around for in E5 form. Lead replacement Petrol didn't seem to last very long........

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2021, 05:13:34 pm »
Got to be honest, that subtle performance edge that premium fuels supposedly gives is lost on me.

I once did a bit of a (not very scientific) test to see whether it was worth the extra cost of premium petrol in terms of improved MPG. I had driven my wife's Renault Clio from Bristol to Durham on regular petrol and recorded my MPG for the journey. Before I returned, I filled up with premium petrol and made the same long steady journey the other way and recorded my MPG.

My theory was that over two long and more or less identical journeys, I could work out a comparable £ per mile for both regular and premium petrol.

As it was, I never bothered working out the cost per mile, as the MPG on the return journey was identical; the premium fuel made no difference at all to my fuel economy.

My Caddy van not only runs better and crisper but does do more to the gallon on Premium diesel and  I have worked it out very precise ( sado )   :lol: Petrol it probably does not make much difference, diesel definitely does, the ecomap I had put on it made a whopping difference    ;D
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Offline sinker

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2021, 05:34:05 pm »

Annoyingly my motorcycle isn't on the published government list....


Stick with the electric one.... ;)

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Online Ian Ball

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2021, 06:12:58 pm »
Got to be honest, that subtle performance edge that premium fuels supposedly gives is lost on me.

I once did a bit of a (not very scientific) test to see whether it was worth the extra cost of premium petrol in terms of improved MPG. I had driven my wife's Renault Clio from Bristol to Durham on regular petrol and recorded my MPG for the journey. Before I returned, I filled up with premium petrol and made the same long steady journey the other way and recorded my MPG.

My theory was that over two long and more or less identical journeys, I could work out a comparable £ per mile for both regular and premium petrol.

As it was, I never bothered working out the cost per mile, as the MPG on the return journey was identical; the premium fuel made no difference at all to my fuel economy.


What are the variables that aren't identical here Pete?

I can think of:
road surface
topography
wind
traffic volume

I honestly had a belief that the premium brands had some sort of diesel injector cleaning properties.  Useful for a hard blast up and down the dual carriageway before an mot emissions test.

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2021, 06:36:19 pm »
Got to be honest, that subtle performance edge that premium fuels supposedly gives is lost on me.

I once did a bit of a (not very scientific) test to see whether it was worth the extra cost of premium petrol in terms of improved MPG. I had driven my wife's Renault Clio from Bristol to Durham on regular petrol and recorded my MPG for the journey. Before I returned, I filled up with premium petrol and made the same long steady journey the other way and recorded my MPG.

My theory was that over two long and more or less identical journeys, I could work out a comparable £ per mile for both regular and premium petrol.

As it was, I never bothered working out the cost per mile, as the MPG on the return journey was identical; the premium fuel made no difference at all to my fuel economy.


What are the variables that aren't identical here Pete?

I can think of:
road surface
topography
wind
traffic volume

I honestly had a belief that the premium brands had some sort of diesel injector cleaning properties.  Useful for a hard blast up and down the dual carriageway before an mot emissions test.


Forgot tyres Ian and inflations    :thumbsup:  ;)
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Question for petrol experts
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2021, 06:36:57 pm »
I love how these topics start to drift off    :lol: :lol: :lol: :bounce:
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