Carbon offsetting for expeditions

[Flotsam]

To put things into perspective look at one of the ship AIS trackers such as marinetraffic or myshiptracking and look at the thousands of ships sailing around the World

 

[JasonC]

...If it boils down to "Is your journey really necessary?" then my answer would always be "yes", because enjoyment of life is necessary.

Well, maybe. But collectively, we are going to have to get used to finding ways to enjoy life that use less of the planet's resources. Because there simply aren't enough to provide for 8bn people enjoying their lives the way we do in this country. I think this is well-established as fact, rather than left-leaning opinion. So exploring ways to do that, while still enjoying caving at home and abroad - as Badlad was trying to do in the original post - seems only sensible. No?

 

[PeteHall]

I wasn't going to enter this discussion and apologies if it's already been said, I'm not reading 11 pages to find out, but...

But collectively, we are going to have to get used to finding ways to enjoy life that use less of the planet's resources. Because there simply aren't enough to provide for 8bn people enjoying their lives the way we do in this country

Unless I am misunderstanding, "carbon offsetting" is about offsetting the impact of using the same amount of the planet's resources, so we can feel good about ourselves while not changing what we are actually doing.

Using less resources to do the same thing, or doing less in order to use less resources are different issues.

 

[mikem]

Unfortunately we are going to have to change what we do to have any real impact.

 

[ChrisJC]

Or have less of us doing the same thing...

Chris.

 

[cap n chris]

Unfortunately we are going to have to change what we do to have any real impact.

There will be no real impact. Back to the OP; I understand there was an HE lecture thing about the suggestion of mandating making a green requirement part of the GPF application. Did that conclude with anything/plans/suggestions?

 

[mikem]

Original info link here:

Rob & Wookey are supposed to be doing the talk at 11.15 to 12 on Saturday in lecture theatre 3 (N.B. details can change):

Hidden Earth 2023 | Should the GPF mandate cave expedition carbon offsetting?

It is imperative that international cave exploration adapts to the ongoing climate emergency by better considering the carbon emissions associated with it. Although there is willing among UK expeditions to reduce their carbon footprints (see...

hidden.earth

 

[Loki]

Rob, I guess what it boils down to is that anything people do will (if you look at life that way) have a "carbon footprint" (what a hateful expression, full of guilt and pervasive crowdswelling tut-tutting) and presumably it's a case of deciding whether (a) you wish to engage in lawful freedom/liberty to enjoy your live/lives howsoever you see fit on the one hand or (b) restrain and restrict your fullness of existence by adhering to a weird religion of carbon counting. If it boils down to "Is your journey really necessary?" then my answer would always be "yes", because enjoyment of life is necessary.

I’m sure it’s possible to enjoy life without screwing over the environment. Just change the way and or what we do. I’m not sure enjoyment of life is necessary- desirable yes. There are millions of people in the world whose lives are abject misery, many in this country, with no way out. This will only get worse while the entitled people at the top continue to trample all over everyone just trying to get by.

I for one can no longer find any moral justification for flying to some far flung destination to lie on a beach or crawl down a hole. ‘Offset’ or not. There’s so much fun available closer to home. Some people just can’t or won’t see that.

 

[Loki]

As an aside but in reply to earlier posts, the Plymouth Santander ferry uses 40 marine tonnes of diesel for the journey. I asked the information desk one time .

 

[mikem]

Sea journey is 885km, so 4.5kg per km (assuming that is one way, or 2.25kg if return). Now some ferries take 1,000 passengers & others 2,000, so which boat?

Unfortunately, if you spread that money out evenly across the world then you wouldn't be able to afford living here.

The average global personal income is $9,733 per year [c.£8,000]. The average global household income is $12,235 per year. The median per-capita household income is only $2,920 per year. Making over $100,000 puts you in the top 10% of global earners, while making over $1 million puts you in the top 1%. (Apr 2023 zippia.com)

 

[Badlad]

How did the thing at HE go? Rob. Wookey?

 

[ChrisJC]

I for one can no longer find any moral justification for flying to some far flung destination to lie on a beach or crawl down a hole. ‘Offset’ or not. There’s so much fun available closer to home. Some people just can’t or won’t see that.

That is a fair point. I guess it does come down to morals.

Chris.

 

[BikinGlynn]

Well, maybe. But collectively, we are going to have to get used to finding ways to enjoy life that use less of the planet's resources. Because there simply aren't enough to provide for 8bn people enjoying their lives the way we do in this country. I think this is well-established as fact, rather than left-leaning opinion. So exploring ways to do that, while still enjoying caving at home and abroad - as Badlad was trying to do in the original post - seems only sensible. No?

I agree & that's the problem our right to freedom means no one (including myself) wants to change their lifestyles despite knowing I should.
The governments recent U turn is simply a vote gainer, they have essentially lied & made up non truths (like "this is the only way we can avoid high taxes on meat" which no one has mentioned in any policy anywhere). along with "some truths" that the cost of living "may" go up for us to meet our net zero targets.
The average Jo just hears this & immediately thinks "Im not paying any more to do what I want to do, Im voting tory"
Fact is we are all going to have to suffer & sacrifice a little to keep the planet habitable, I would happily pay a bit more taxes to keep the targets personally.
Of course the honourable thing to do is look after the poorest by taxing the richer more to help meet these targets but as the people making these decisions are generally the richer so that will never happen!

sorry rant over

 

[BikinGlynn]

I for one can no longer find any moral justification for flying to some far flung destination to lie on a beach or crawl down a hole. ‘Offset’ or not. There’s so much fun available closer to home. Some people just can’t or won’t see that.

100%
Iv just been Europe for first time for 20yr... I drove 1800 miles & averaged 61 mpg (mainly due to superb roads & less traffic) the girlfriend & I figured this is far more environmentally friendly than flying even though we could of flew for a fraction of the cost

 

[Fulk]

Loki:

As an aside but in reply to earlier posts, the Plymouth Santander ferry uses 40 marine tonnes of diesel for the journey. I asked the information desk one time .

Mikem:

Sea journey is 885km, so 4.5kg per km (assuming that is one way, or 2.25kg if return). Now some ferries take 1,000 passengers & others 2,000, so which boat?

Well, I assume that a 'marine tonne' is pretty much the same as an ordinary tonne; if that is the case, then it's ~45 kg / km.

 

[Loki]

Loki:


Mikem:


Well, I assume that a 'marine tonne' is pretty much the same as an ordinary tonne; if that is the case, then it's ~45 kg / km.

48760 litres for 885km. Or approx 19.5 gallons per mile.

 

[Fulk]

So, as I pointed out, it's ~45 kg/km (not 4.5).

 

[mikem]

Oops, yes I missed a zero out of the calculation!

 

[Fulk]

So – bearing in mind that when you burn a gram of hydrocarbon you produce roughly 3 g of CO2, each trip to Spain generates ~125 tonnes of CO2.

 

[mikem]

Which will be equivalent to about 500 cars driving there & back