Charging people to enter the Peak District?

[Pitlamp]

This wants watching - very carefully:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-60389061

The article does say the Peak National Park doesn't have any plans to do this currently - but it's the thin end of an extremely ugly wedge which would make one of our more important caving areas a no go area except for the affluent.

It's not the first time such suggestions have cropped up.

 

[AR]

Glad to see John Harrison's firmly against it, and I'm also horrified to see the Green councillor's suggestion that residents would have to pay too - I'm going to have a dig and see where she represents.

 

[mch]

I'm going to have a dig and see where she represents.

She's on Bamford and Thornhill Parish Council. Her bio shows her to be a (no doubt wealthy) lawyer from Essex.

 

[Oscar D]

Seems to say that a couple of the proponents don?t seem to think it will affect visitor numbers or local businesses. I don?t think they understand the effects of these kinds of charges on regular people.

 

[aricooperdavis]

The title is a bit disingenuous, as it's a congestion charge not a toll, so enter by train, bus, or car share (usually) and there's no charge. That being said the way to get people onto more sustainable and space efficient forms of transport is to make those better and more available. If the number of cars is costing the local authority then I think a congestion charge might be a fairer way to raise the money to handle it rather than an increase in council tax or parking charges. Difficult problem, not sure this is the best solution, not sure it's the worst either.

 

[Chocolate fireguard]

But there are good things there.
In particular, it's good to read of the Conservative councillor with 3 cars using public transport more than the cars "because it's the right thing to do".

 

[Pitlamp]

If it disproportionately affects the less affluent then it's a very nasty way to achieve an objective.

The problem with "conjestion" charges is they often conveniently seem to apply when there's no congestion.

The last time something similar was proposed a few years ago, I wrote a polite, structured letter to the PDNP. To their credit I got a really detailed personal reply, with a promise of a further letter once any decision had been taken either way. Later, they were indeed kind enough to let me know that plans had been scrapped because of so many complaints (i.e. common sence prevailed).

Folks, if you really want to do something about this iniquitous idea, take the time to write to the right people. It's the most likely way to have any influence

 

[Pitlamp]

But there are good things there.
In particular, it's good to read of the Conservative councillor with 3 cars using public transport more than the cars "because it's the right thing to do".

As indeed do I. But I'm lucky as I live close to a railway station.
Far too many people live close to closed railway stations  and cancelled bus service routes.

 

[Pitlamp]

I only have a small single car though - just saying!

 

[pwhole]

It's difficult to make people use public transport though. Since Covid, the 272 bus to Castleton from Sheffield is almost empty, even at weekends, whereas previously I used to have to fight to get on it. When I get to Castleton now the place is packed with parked cars, mostly for free up the old Mam Tor road as all the meters were burnt out years ago. At weekends it's a constant procession of cars driving through Castleton, but few stopping (there's nowhere left to park if they did). There was a guy in a camper van parked outside Odin Mine for a year last year - I almost spray-painted his wagon as it had lichen growing on it.

That bus service is unusually good for the Peak District in that it runs hourly seven days a week, and the last one back to Sheffield is 2220 - it used to to be 2320, before covid. But the Bakewell bus has been cut back to early evening last one now (when Chatsworth closes, basically), Matlock is teatime and the Buxton bus is a joke - the last one back to Sheffield is 1530! Even in summer. If I want to do anything in Eyam, Stoney or Calver I have to be ready to go home by 1700 or walk to Grindleford station or Hathersage with all my kit. I don't drive, so I don't have any choice but to use PT unless I can get a lift.

Hope Valley train services have been cut back to bus replacement only at weekends at the moment, so if my friend from Manchester wants to get to Hope station to go caving it's a 2.5 hour bus ride there, and then the same again home. Just not viable.

 

[paul]

I bet the majority of those who promote greater use of public transport live somewhere where that is actually an option. Try living in rural locations where it is almost non-existant, or having to change bus several times just to travel say 15 or 20 miles, when the bus timetabling is such that when arriving at the first location requiring a change to another bus, the next bus is 2 hours later...

 

[Pitlamp]

People are still wary of public transport because of Covid, which might partly explain fewer folk on the bus. (Accepted it's not the whole story.)

Public transport is great (I use it a lot, in preference to the car) - but not if you have to take anything heavy / bulky.

 

[kay]

It's not just having "public transport" that's the solution, it's having public transport that is appropriate. I can get to the Dales by train. To get to Ribblehead by 10am I have to start out at 7am instead of 8.30, then for some reason the return journey is half an hour longer again, and it costs the two of us ?47 as opposed to two gallons of petrol.

Add in the extra walking if you want to be at Southerscales and the only stations available are Horton or Ribblehead, and cap that with the need to carry heavy equipment, as Pitlamp says.

Locally, we have buses. But only to the centre of the city. If you want to go to 4 miles round the circumference, you either travel into the centre and back out again, or you go by car.

So in practice I don't use public transport. If it's less than a couple of miles I walk, otherwise I use the car.

 

[kay]

Try living in rural locations where it is almost non-existant, or having to change bus several times just to travel say 15 or 20 miles, when the bus timetabling is such that when arriving at the first location requiring a change to another bus, the next bus is 2 hours later...

You don't have to be in a rural situation for that to be true.

 

[aricooperdavis]

If it disproportionately affects the less affluent then it's a very nasty way to achieve an objective.

Absolutely, the implementation would be key - it needs to target those who are using their cars at peak times or in particular trouble spots when they don't have to be and have another feasible option, and let's be honest the bulk in that category will be visitors.

 

[cavemanmike]

How about a park and ride for visitors

 

[Pitlamp]

I take it you're not a cave diver then? 

 

[cavemanmike]

I take it you're not a cave diver then? 

.
Sorry about that, I'm thinking of those bloooody townies driving around in there Chelsea tractors 

 

[Pitlamp]

You just conjoured up this mental image of the bus conductor's expression as someone tries to load on four big tanks, drysuit, scooter, a load of lead weights and a stacker box of all the associated gubbins!

 

[Tseralo]

The public transport in the peak is a joke, Ive spent years using it. The journey to Castleton that takes me 30 mins in a car and is comfortable is an unpleasant, expensive, 1:30 from Sheffield. Its also none existent to lots of areas even getting to Stoney Middleton is hard.

Even if this did force people to use busses it would only push more people into certain areas and leave the rest the preserve of the wealthy who can afford it. The whole thing rings of another NIMBY who is upset that more people are using something and want "their peace and quiet back".