CNCC - BCA
- Thread starter spikey
- Start date
Peter Burgess
New member
Sorry this has gone a bit off topic - if the new slant takes off, perhaps it should be moved to a new thread.
paul
Moderator
To go back to the original question, my understanding is that since the formation of the BCA and the "one stop shop", as long as you are a member of one Regional Council, you can apply for acces via another RC.
So, if as a non-club caver you join Derbyshire Caving Association as an individual member (I'm not sure if other RCs allow individual membership rather than just clubs), you can apply for permits through the CNCC or any other RC without also having to join these other RCs.
Is that correct?
So, if as a non-club caver you join Derbyshire Caving Association as an individual member (I'm not sure if other RCs allow individual membership rather than just clubs), you can apply for permits through the CNCC or any other RC without also having to join these other RCs.
Is that correct?
W
wormster
Guest
Peter Burgess said:
Peter as far as I'm aware the majority of the folk who did the graffiti removal and general tidying up in the Box vicinty are non club members.............infact I think I could be right in saying that the majority of those folk DON'T WANT TO JOIN A CLUB IN ORDER TO GO UNDERGROUND/CAVING.
I've been noodleing around this club business for a couple of years now and am still undecided about club membership.
There is one well known Mendip club that I use as a base when in the area, I pay my guest fees and use their superb facilities, get on well with the members and have even worked with them on a conservation project in the area.
The beauty of this is that I'm beholden to nobody but myself and choose where I go and what I do. Some of the benifits that I can see of joining a club is the insurance issue, Yes I can go and buy it direct from the BCA or join a club and get it as well, as for trespass permits etc, well I'll pay on the day thank you very much.
Peter Burgess
New member
wormster said:
Wormster: I carefully avoided suggesting that they were club members. My point being is that it is not whether someone is in a club or outside the club system that should determine how we judge their actions. The point is that club membership is nothing more than a personal preference. You have to accept the environment in which you choose to live. Inside a club or outside, each has its drawbacks and advantages. Some have a problem accepting this and want the best of both worlds, while at the same time thinking themselves to be discriminated against in some way.
W
wormster
Guest
Peter Burgess said:
I'll quite happily live with the way it is at the moment, this way I feel as if i've got the best of both worlds.
(And now know enuff cavers in differnt clubs around the country to be able to gat a trip *ALMOST* anywhere :tease
HOWEVER, as a smoker I DO FEEL DISCRIMINATED AGAINST..............but that's a completley different topic and WE'RE not going there are we???????
Is ukcaving.com a caving club?
It has members
It has a committee (the moderators?)
Meets are arranged, and written up
There is a "membership fee" (ok it's optional, you donate as much as you feel it is worth)
There are rules - eg http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,1872.0.html
???????
It has members
It has a committee (the moderators?)
Meets are arranged, and written up
There is a "membership fee" (ok it's optional, you donate as much as you feel it is worth)
There are rules - eg http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,1872.0.html
???????
Peter Burgess
New member
It can even throw members out if it wants to.
Peter Burgess
New member
I think it has a website as well!
Brains
Well-known member
According to the online Cambridge dictionary:
club (GROUP) Show phonetics
group noun [C]
1 an organization of people with a common purpose or interest, who meet regularly and take part in shared activities:
I've just joined the local golf/squash/tennis club.
So by that then UKCaving, or other similar web based associations of people could be construed a club... Particularly if you factor in Moderators (= Committee), and rules (= constitution), never mind any other factors...
club (GROUP) Show phonetics
group noun [C]
1 an organization of people with a common purpose or interest, who meet regularly and take part in shared activities:
I've just joined the local golf/squash/tennis club.
So by that then UKCaving, or other similar web based associations of people could be construed a club... Particularly if you factor in Moderators (= Committee), and rules (= constitution), never mind any other factors...
spikey
New member
Thanks for all the replies - I hadn't meant to open a can of worms.
I appreciate the work that CNCC (and other bodies) do to maintain access to sites where there may otherwise be none. However, I do feel that accountability is not a particularly justified reason to restrict permits to clubs - generally, everyone is traceable and I would have thought even more so if an individual rather than a club is booking the permit - presumably you have to give a name and address on application? Maybe the landowners feel that CNCC (or other permit-issuing bodies) may have some sort of authority over the constituent clubs?
More likely I would think, given today's litigious mentality, would be the insurance issue. However, I wouldn't have thought there is a vast difference between the BCA's individual and club cover ( Mind you, I haven't gone through the fine print on the policies)
Cave_Troll said:
I appreciate the work that CNCC (and other bodies) do to maintain access to sites where there may otherwise be none. However, I do feel that accountability is not a particularly justified reason to restrict permits to clubs - generally, everyone is traceable and I would have thought even more so if an individual rather than a club is booking the permit - presumably you have to give a name and address on application? Maybe the landowners feel that CNCC (or other permit-issuing bodies) may have some sort of authority over the constituent clubs?
More likely I would think, given today's litigious mentality, would be the insurance issue. However, I wouldn't have thought there is a vast difference between the BCA's individual and club cover ( Mind you, I haven't gone through the fine print on the policies)
D
Dep
Guest
martinr said:
No shortage of bitching, whining and general dissention either!
Peter Burgess
New member
And a huge number of armchair members, as well as the really noisy ones who never seem to take a rest. Sorry. :-[
D
Dep
Guest
A virtual paradox!
cap n chris
Well-known member
Virtual paradoxical non-armcharian donut/doughnut/doh-knot.
Elaine
Active member
wormster said:I'll quite happily live with the way it is at the moment, this way I feel as if i've got the best of both worlds.
(And now know enuff cavers in differnt clubs around the country to be able to gat a trip *ALMOST* anywhere :tease
Am I naïvely (notice I have got 2 dots over my i in that word - clever eh!) innocent in believing that the majority of people who recommend that a person might want to join a caving club are only doing so so that
a) that person may meet others to go caving with.
b) the club can provide keys/access/leaders or at least makes it easier for you know who to approach.
c) provides kit for you to borrow so that you do not have to buy it yourself.
And nothing to do with trying to indoctrinate people into believing that they 'have to' join a club in order to go caving.
In an ideal world all caves would be open to anyone who wanted to go down them, and all people who did so would leave no trace that they had ever been there and make no noise whilst there late at night. There would also never be any issues about the possibility of blaming anyone for something, and therefore no need for insurance. Any committees would only exist to arrange repairs to entrances etc and social/caving events.
Wouldn't that be nice. Unfortunately it is not an ideal world.
I believe that the present system of clubs, regional councils and insurance keeps cave access as it is. I am quite happy to comply with this system.
Wormster - you seem to be getting the benefits of clubs via others who are club members. Is this something to boast about? I would be grateful and keep quiet if I was you.
And by the way - give up smoking. Disgusting habit!!
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