dow cave; complete novice.

[kay]

Another fun thing to do is look for a passage just on your left after you've climbed up the waterfall at the Great Douk end - it leads to a sump, but more interestingly it leads to a 'window' in the cliff where you can look down on the shakehole.

done that, i walked along a little ridge over the waterfall and then down the grass back to the entrance

No, not that one. This is inside the cave, on the L as you go in, a passage which branches, the R goes to the sump, the L to the 'window' - and you definitely wouldn't be walking back down the grass from that!

 

[rob_]

no you can, if you go to the edge of the "window" you can walk allong a little ledge about a foot wide over the waterfall and then climb down the grass on the other side

 

[damian]

Rob, have another read of Kay's post. You are definitely not talking about the same thing.

She's talking about going deeper into the cave, you're talking about an alternative way out of it.

 

[kay]

It's conceivable we might be talking about the same thing. The 'window' is considerably higher than the waterfall, up in the cliff face. I don't like heights, and haven't even considered making my way out of the 'window'. But it is conceivable that there may be a ledge you can make your way along the cliff face on, well above the height of the entrance passage, and that would eventually get you along to the steep bank to the R of the cave.

Incidentally 'Town Hall Clock' grows on that bank - an insignificant little plant with a curious flower head arranged like the four clock faces of a town hall clock tower.

I thought at first Rob meant the ledge on the RHS of the waterfall that you can use as an alternative way out instead of climbing down the waterfall.

Rob - when you went to the 'window', did you also explore the main way on in that passage and get to the sump?

 

[rob_]

It's conceivable we might be talking about the same thing. The 'window' is considerably higher than the waterfall, up in the cliff face. I don't like heights, and haven't even considered making my way out of the 'window'. But it is conceivable that there may be a ledge you can make your way along the cliff face on, well above the height of the entrance passage, and that would eventually get you along to the steep bank to the R of the cave.

Correct.

when you went to the 'window', did you also explore the main way on in that passage and get to the sump?

No we were too excited about having found a new thingy! but i suppose the water must have come from somewhere, i didnt even realise there was another bit to it
a "sump" according to google is:
A place where water completely fills the cave passage
so is there a bit beyond it? like a U bend?

 

[kay]

when you went to the 'window', did you also explore the main way on in that passage and get to the sump?

No we were too excited about having found a new thingy! but i suppose the water must have come from somewhere, i didnt even realise there was another bit to it
a "sump" according to google is:
A place where water completely fills the cave passage

so is there a bit beyond it? like a U bend?

Yep. Southerscales Pot.
"An awkward 12m dive" - do not try to free-dive it.

 

[rob_]

Yay! We did it!

I think because we knew what to expect it was easy, we just got down on our bellies and ploughed through it.
The sump wasn’t as I expected, I thought it would literally be like a U bend and go vertically down and then back up again, from what we saw it looked like it was a “normal” passage that dipped down and had become waterlogged.
Rob.

 

[rob_]

So if great douk's an easy cave, what's a hard cave? and what makes it hard?
Rob.

 

[Brains]

Hehe - a can of worms there! Many things, the length of approach and the terrain are a factor, as is the duration of the trip. More commonly the (lack of) size of the passage and presence of large amounts of wetness and little air, with big vertical drops makes for harder trips. Other factors like flood potential, loose rock and rescue extraction also need to be considered... There is just out reccently a guide to some harder trips in the Dales area, available from all good gear shops, use it as a tick list when you are more experienced?! Prepare to give your body a right good beasting...

 

[cap n chris]

what makes it hard?

Axiomatically, the difficulties to overcome!

 

[rob_]

long churn/upper long churn/lower long churn,

this is what we want to do next, can anyone suggest directions/instructions?

thanks

Rob

 

[crazystaci]

long churn/upper long churn/lower long churn,

this is what we want to do next, can anyone suggest directions/instructions?

thanks

Rob

i think brains knows the way round as he was leading when we went there, the way out is pritey strait forward and fun
i thought the whole trip was really fun but was really cold lol
i will defiantly do it again!

 

[damian]

Pay 50p/head trespass fee to farmhouse in hamlet of Selside. To find the farmhouse pull off the mainroad into the hamelt and drive down the track a little way. The farmhouse is just down on the left and has signs about renting holiday cottages.

Park in the lane, walk up and over the stone stile. Follow the track to the clump of trees (Alum Pot). Walk around the outisde of the wall, crossing the stream before it falls down Alum. Walk along the track ignoring the first fenced entrance and walking to the second - the first is Diccan Pot, the second is Long Churn.

Go over the stile and infront of you is a small stream. This is Wilson's Cave - worth doing afterwards. For now, though, step down into the open-air passage running from left to right. Turn left and go upstream. This is really a simple watery walk. Keep going until you reach a large pool with a waterfall coming into it. It is possible to climb this waterfall and exit the cave at Upper Long Churn entrance just above - have a look at the climb and see what you think. Then turn around and go back downstream. Walk down to daylight again and then carry on following the little stream from Wilson's Cave. This leads to Lower Long Churn around a couple of corners. Follow this water downstream until it turns a sharp left into a bedding plane (coming back out at Diccan Pot again). Don't go itno the bedding plane, but turn right into the dry passage. Follow this along. You will soon meet the first of two pools. Try to avoid a soaking (!) and you will soon emerge at a rift. Climb down (safer at the start where it's tight, easier at the end where it's wider and less safe) into a small chamber. There is then one more climb down - there is a drilled hole in the rock above this to the left for a handline rope if you have one. At the bottom of this climb is another, larger chamber leading quickly to Dolly Tubs pitch where you will probably see daylight from Alum Pot shaft. You are now about 20m (guess) down the shaft you walked past on the surface. Turn around and go back out.

Be very careful of flooding. Long Churn has a large, bowl-shaped catchment area for the rain to collect. It can get very wet indeed in heavy rain. I was there earlier this year when the water was over waist deep in Lower Long Churn. Do not go near it in such circumstances and be aware in lower conditions that it may rise substantially and quickly. If it's dry weather and has been for the few days before, there should be no problem at all.

Good luck, enjoy the trip and let us know how it went.

 

[kay]

long churn/upper long churn/lower long churn,

this is what we want to do next, can anyone suggest directions/instructions?

thanks

The farmhouse can be seen from the main road, on the R approaching from Ingleton, set back amongst the other houses - it's the white one with black windows.

Following stream to Lower Long Churn entrance goes  under a rock bridge to emerge in daylight again, and then back underground with a waterfall coming in on the R.

There's also a 'short cut' between Upper and Lower - Baptistry Crawl. - it comes in part way along the dry passage.

I recommend getting a survey before you go in - you can pick one up quite cheaply from Inglesport. The survey also shows the other caves in the area - Borrins Moor, Wilsons, Lower Borrins Moor, Birthday, Left Bank etc, so you can do quite a lot of exploring. I endorse Damien's comments about flooding, and also be very aware of Diccan Pot - if in doubt, keep to the right on the way into Long Churn - there's another link to Diccan's Pot further on in, beyond the two pools, if I recall correctly. I wouldn't do too much exploring in Lower Long Churn if you don't have the survey.

Dolly Tubs pitch needs a ladder or SRT, and you won't see daylight from the top of it.

There's a second climb up from the Dolly Tubs chamber, a bit further back along the chamber compared to the first on - this gives the choice of a crawl through the 'cheese press' or a crawl followed by a traverse along a ledge - both ways get you back to the rift.

 

[kay]

Rob - you probably do this for walking anyway - if you are planning to go into any caves, leave a realistic call-out time with someone, so that if you haven't phoned them by that time, they can call out cave rescue. There's a thread somewhere on ukc about call-outs, what sort of info to give, how much time to leave ad so on. Remember things that are trivial above groun(eg sprained ankle) are a bit of an epic if they happen underground.

Did you do the Churns at the weekend? How did it go?

 

[Skyrmy]

Rob

We're (BRCC) giving one of our new members his first SRT lesson on Saturday (16th) in Sunset Hole.  You're quite welcome to tag along as far as the pitch head if you want and watch the proceedings!!!

 

[ditzy 24//7]

long churn/upper long churn/lower long churn,

this is what we want to do next, can anyone suggest directions/instructions?

thanks

Rob

i think brains knows the way round as he was leading when we went there, the way out is pritey strait forward and fun
i thought the whole trip was really fun but was really cold lol
i will defiantly do it again!

yes staci brains does seem to know his way about quiet well.
if your to do it again though may i suggest you wear some neoprine socks this time so you dont get too cold again.
i have a nice pair now and they keep my feet warm so when doing a wet trip with you i will be nice and warm and you wont  :ras:
unless you get soiome of corse.

 

[crazystaci]

yes staci brains does seem to know his way about quiet well.
if your to do it again though may i suggest you wear some neoprine socks this time so you dont get too cold again.
i have a nice pair now and they keep my feet warm so when doing a wet trip with you i will be nice and warm and you wont 
unless you get soiome of corse.

yeh i think i will at some point but i cant just yet! lol

 

[rob_]

Got there about 11, after the GPS took us round the houses, pulled into the lane and was surprised to find it bustling with activity, the other two caves we have done we have been the only ones there. So we waited for the others to go as we ate our sarnis then wandered into Selside to part with our brass.
We walked up to alum pot and had a look in, then continued past dican pot to the second fenced in area, we couldn't figure out weather to go left or right so we went left (upper long churn I think) we walked till we got to a large pool with a waterfall coming into it (Dr banisters hand basin?) we climbed up the waterfall and emerged from the cave in a little stream, we followed the stream until we found where it came from but it didn't look as though it went anywhere so we turned around and climbed back down the waterfall.
we slowly meandered back from whence we came exploring the little passages that went off from the main cave, most of which rejoined the main cave. We found a small passageway off to our right which we explored, this finally emerged back in a main cave system which we did not think was the one we had just come from, almost straight in front of us we could see daylight through a floor level crawl, we crawled along it and emerged in dican pot, which we thought strange as we had been told to avoid it, we sat down for a rest and a guy emerged from the other side so we got chatting to him, he’d just ascended dican and told us about it, he said it’s worth going and having a look at the drop but be careful and when you see the rope on the left stop! So we went and had a look, it looked inviting to me but my friend wasn’t so sure so I have questions about SRT now, anyway, we returned to lower long churn and started exploring there. We went away from the waterfall at the beginning and meant to return and do it but in the end didn’t.
We continued through the first pool, then the second one then down the
?rift to where the cheese press was, we looked at the climb down at the other end to the cheese press and weren’t too sure about it so we decided to head back as we were tired, hungry, wet and cold by that point.
All in all a very entertaining trip, though we didn’t manage to do the waterfall at the beginning of lower long churn or Wilson's Cave

I was thinking about doing gaping gill next but am I right in thinking that there is no “easy” way into it (that's free)?

SRT: can someone tell me about it as I don’t really know anything, and what kind of cost is involved in purchasing one? I'm guessing you need a harness, a few carabineers, an ascender/descender/both? And countless other things I don’t know about.

We're (BRCC) giving one of our new members his first SRT lesson on Saturday (16th) in Sunset Hole.  You're quite welcome to tag along as far as the pitch head if you want and watch the proceedings!!!

sounds good,
Where is sunset hole and how far in is the pitch head?
I’ll run it by my friend, thank you for the invitation.

Rob.

 

[dunc]

we couldn't figure out weather to go left or right so we went left (upper long churn I think) we walked till we got to a large pool with a waterfall coming into it (Dr banisters hand basin?)

Yes.

we climbed up the waterfall and emerged from the cave in a little stream, we followed the stream until we found where it came from but it didn't look as though it went anywhere so we turned around and climbed back down the waterfall.

The stream emerges from Borrins Moor Cave - at this point it is a crawl in water which splits - left passage splits again (more crawling IIRC) leading to a couple of entrances and right leads to walking passage and the top entrance.

I was thinking about doing gaping gill next but am I right in thinking that there is no “easy” way into it (that's free)?

SRT or ladder is only free way in. Other than that you have to pay at one of the two winch meets.

Where is sunset hole and how far in is the pitch head?

Chapel-le-dale. About a miles walk from the road/Hill Inn.
Pitch a good few hundred metres in, with a few climbs to negotiate along the way.