Equality and Inclusions in Caving Clubs - Try Dive Spin-Off Thread

[Rachel]

Trouble is, when you see delicate flowers, it's sometimes very difficult to refrain from taking the piss.

Would you like to define 'delicate flowers'? Skimming through this thread, I can't seem to identify them here.

 

[droid]

'Delicate flowers': those that are quick to take offence (often on behalf of third parties) and just as quick to tell the world they're offended. Likely to take seriously something that wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Take any form of argument against their views as a personal affront.

 

[The Old Ruminator]

I have just caught up with this thread as I actually prefer to read about caving. I suppose now I might have to remove the " Old " from my forum name as its ageist . ( Though self deprecating ) . We never had this sort of debate in the diving clubs and I cannot understand why cavers are so introspective and worry about such things. Our diving club was almost 50/50 on a sex basis ( though I might be non pc to say that today ). Our club Diving Officer was femail and we taught school children to dive ( we used a pool at a public school ) we also were engaged with a group of disabled children. This " diversity " was essential when it came to our successful lottery application of ?30,000 to build our own boat. I wonder how many caving clubs could aspire to that. We had a gay diving club called GLUG ( Gay and Lesbian Underwater Group ) and several gay divers in our own group. They actually appreciated a bit of mild banter. I have quite a few femail caving friends and recognise that they are better cavers than me. Why does all of this need to be an issue ? Like politics it should have no place on the forum.

 

[NewStuff]

Trouble is, when you see delicate flowers, it's sometimes very difficult to refrain from taking the piss.

Why refrain? We found it stops awkward trips with people treading on eggshells, and eliminates the temptation to shove someone down a pitch without the aid of a rope.

 

[cavemanmike]

ALL the  girl /women /female cavers' I have caved with over the years are more than capable(in more ways than one) of looking after themselves if the banter ever got out of hand.

 

[droid]

That's my experience too.... :

 

[BradW]

That was aimed at BradW, who seems to have a problem with 'inclusiveness' when it involves people with an opinion other than his/hers.

I'm in your camp. Not 'terrified' of offending, don't give a shit about gender, skin colour etc.

That's just not true, Droid - where I am coming from relates to having respect. It's easy to have respect for someone whose views by and large you agree with, or who behaves in much the same way as yourself. You need a certain wisdom to respect someone whose views are the polar opposite of your own. It's sad that there are still a few people who don't have that wisdom and I think they and this debate are the poorer for it. Mr Cornwall's post was an encouraging display of his wisdom.

 

[SealCave]

First off I'm new here but I can see this thread being discussed all over the place. I am at a loss to be honest.

I agree with the delicate flowers comment. Every sport has now got to the stage where someone deliberately ignores fact, doesn't read replies properly and worst of all tries to impose their 'fashionable' views on others. Inclusivity is not something that can be generalised. What matters is how a particular person takes a particular action in a particular circumstance. For example, the word Paki. The entire Pakistani army has Pak written on their shirts, because that's what they call themselves. Calling someone a Paki isn't in itself racist, no more than calling someone Yorkshire. What matters is how it's said, in what context. By the way some of my family is half Pakistani, some of them are women, some are not even heterosexual or gender specific. None would wish some fashionable idiot to pretend to be outraged on their behalf. Indeed they would probably tell aforementioned idiot to get a life.

Delicate flowers are those who percieve wrong is every use of the words and, worse, think they are so intelligent that they can then impose their view on otherwise harmless actions and speech. It's ridiculous.

I know some of the people in this thread, including some who have apologised and had posts deleted. They are without doubt some of the finest individuals in the underground world. To prosecute them for giving their view or having a, mild, sense of humour, or for writing posts you don't understand so you object to them anyway is truly stupid.

 

[NewStuff]

That's just not true, Droid - where I am coming from relates to having respect. It's easy to have respect for someone whose views by and large you agree with, or who behaves in much the same way as yourself. You need a certain wisdom to respect someone whose views are the polar opposite of your own. It's sad that there are still a few people who don't have that wisdom and I think they and this debate are the poorer for it. Mr Cornwall's post was an encouraging display of his wisdom.

Respect is earned, not given, kiddo. I respect Droid's position despite not agreeing with his views. I do not respect certain other people with his views as they certainly haven't earned it.

If you got silly with the lasses in our club, you would, in no uncertain terms, be told to stop very swiftly, and probably have the piss taken forever more. If you got offended on their behalf, they would get offended that you thought they couldn't sort it themselves. I have yet to meet any females in *any* club that wouldn't hesitate to put people straight. As for your prattle about "need a certain wisdom" well, that just straight up Dunning-Kruger.

 

[Badlad]

[gmod]We're still receiving complaints about this thread and there are clearly a lot of differing views. I think the discussion has gone about as far as we can responsibly let it. I'm locking it for good. Please respect our decision.[/gmod]