First Aid Kits

[Peregrina]

It needs to be small enough that once the initial novelty has worn off you can still be bothered to carry it underground!

I'd take just as well-equipped a first aid kit leading a group into something really easy like Peak or the Churns as on the surface because bulk isn't really an issue, but my true caving first aid kit is a little tupperware that fits in a tiny side bag. One of the DCRO doctors used to make and sell tiny kits to fit in an oversuit pocket, but I don't think she does them anymore unfortunately, but it most be possible to make one that small.

Think through what you're actually going to be able to help with and know how to do. Work through ABCDE and you'll probably realise all you're going to be usefully doing is potentially a bit of wound management (steri strips, little dressings maybe, I've seen medical gloves to cover hand gashes suggested), maybe supporting a sprain/strain and most likely of all managaing environmental issues which makes a bothy or survival bag the most important parts to my mind.

If you search on here this has been discussed lots before, just don't become one of the people carrying an emergency tracheotomy kit or a commercial tourniquet underground🤦‍♀️

 

[ian.p]

Agree with a lot of what Peregrina has said:

- most important piece of first aid equipment is a group shelter being able to keep warm makes everything less rubbish and being able to stop and wait for help has prevented a lot of accidents.

- if caving solo particularly: survival bag and at least 3 x tea lights + 2 piezo lighters or one of the big three wick MTDE candles. I've found 3 is the minimum needed to stay semi comfortably warm for a prolonged time.
- make sure its small enough to carry

- Surgical gloves good idea as if its a big blead you will need to get your hands involved to put pressure on the wound. more likely good for keeping crud out of a nasty hand wound.

- I like transpore tape it does a similar job to micropore but is stronger doesn't fall apart in water and you can tear it to create steri strips.

- gaffer tape has its place for supporting / stopping things from wobbling however id advise strongly against using it going round a limb. It does not stretch and the limb will swell this can be very bad from a circulation point of view there's a reason bandages have a bit of stretch in them. If for whatever reason you don't have a choice keep a very good eye on the limbs circulation.

- I suspect carrying or wearing a spare thermal and a pair of shears/knife (or a thermal that's not too robust so you can rip it up!) is probably a lot more useful than any number of bandages.

- Painkillers very good idea you might be there a while or have to do some shuffling to somewhere safer, paracetamol and ibuprofen are both very effective pain killers.

- I am skeptical of caffein tabs they are probably good for revising but I think they're probably rubbish for keeping you alive as they're going to hype your system up and make you jittery when really you need to be calming down and digging in for the long haul. I would replace with dextros tablets as an aid to getting out when battered.

- I've used a nalgene bottle as a first aid kit in the past they do work and good at staying watertight which is important however they are a complete pain in the arse to get things in and out of especially if you are in a flap. Small peli case/otter box type things or for the budget student the little snap and seal tupperware boxes seem easier to use. I advocate the use of sandwich bags or a small drybag inside the case around things that don't like getting damp so you don't have to throw the whole kit away if it leaks. A dry bag on its own generally isn't enough to stop your kit turning to mush in the UK.

 

[aricooperdavis]

I try to take as little as I can that would help with the highest risk events (in terms of consequence x likelihood), and this generally ends up also being useful for some of the lower risk events.

This obviously requires an understanding of what the high risk events are, which is very difficult to make an informed choice about, so I try to guess this from my experience, imagination, and incident reports (i.e. I make it up off the top of my head).

I try to keep it very small so that I can always take it with me.

I always carry:

• water (1L)
  • Hydration, washing wounds, pouring in eyes etc.
• torch & whistle
  • signalling
  • worn around the neck tucked into a buff to prevent nasty lacerations. I've cut the stitched elastic and taped it back together, so it'll break under load to prevent strangling
• knife
  • cutting up medical kit into manageable pieces, cutting people out of clothes/ropes/gear, etc.
  • worn around the neck, as above
• a 3L dry bag, containing:
  • 
    
  • pencil & waterproof notebook
    • documenting stuff, writing messages for people, recording obs. etc. I've written a very condensed cas-card (just the acronyms and memory aids really) on the inside cover
    • the pencil is tied to the spiral binding with cord, which makes a makeshift tourniquet which can be tightened using the pencil in desperation
  • bothy bag
    • I always carry a small 2 person one, and may also carry a bigger group one when leading group trips
    • After the water this is probably my most used bit of kit
  • 16oz Nalgene first aid kit containing:
    • 
      
    • medical gloves
    • alcohol wipes
    • non-adhesive dressings
      • multiple sizes
    • stretch bandages
    • vet wrap
    • duct tape
    • steri-strips
    • elastic plasters
    • drugs
      • for personal use only, those that are on-prescription are only for use as directed by prescriber, most can do serious harm if used in the wrong circumstances...
      • aspirin (caution!), ibuprofen, paracetamol, sumatriptan (prescription only, caution!), co-codamol (prescription only, caution!), water purification tablets
    • plastic bags
    • toilet paper
  • 36-inch SAM splint
    • Splinting, support, immobilisation etc.

 

[Misbecaving]

This and a bottle of whiskey

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

16oz Nalgene first aid kit containing:

Super helpful Ari, thank you. Nalgene first aid kit is a great idea. We usually stuff a few bits into a daren drum but it needs revising.
It doesn't currently have vet wrap, gloves, gauze or steri strips but I'm going to bring them, especially because they don't weigh much.

I was thinking of getting a SAM splint to bring on more demanding trips, where it could be the difference between getting myself out (or at least getting myself some of the way out in the hours before CRO reach me).

For underground meds, I bring: naproxen (prescription, but I would take it for its non prescribed use if needed), ibuprofen, omeprazole, paracetamol, dissolvable co-codamol tablets (you can get 8/500 ones OTC).

For overground meds, all of the above plus: antihistamine tablets, antihistamine gel, aspirin (if going to high altitudes or with an old man), sumatriptan (prescribed).

 

[aricooperdavis]

An antihistamine is a great idea, I'll definitely be adding that!

I used to carry a candle and lighter too as ian.p suggested, but I've had the wax melt and destroy the other contents of the nalgene too often so I no longer bother. Maybe I should but in a plastic bag...

 

[Ed]

I guess duct tape is a better seal over things which could be useful in some scenarios?
For a third option, I take electrical tape, but I've never used in anger.
It lives in a nalgene with a spare buff, balaclava, candles, lighter, spare batteries and a couple of naked bar type things. I also carry a superlight emergency shelter bothy bag thing if there isn't one going down in another bag.

I also found a foil blanket today whilst climbing in Spain which might become part of my kit

SParky tape is great for keeping broken / damaged arms and shoulders in place instead of slings - and its waterproof.

 

[Ed]

captive bolt gun --- stops them whinging too much

 

[Standard Unit of Tom]

Extensive thought has been put into the idea of caving cocaine, the best rescue is a self rescue ofc and I think personally it would help. Only problem is finding a source...

 

[hannahb]

What is vet wrap?

 

[ChrisB]

Vet wrap is self adhesive elastic bandage. Think of an ordinary elastic bandage with the stickiness of duct tape. If wrapping round and arm or leg, it doesn't slip to a narrower part of the limb and you don't have to find a pin to secure the end. Originally marketed for animals, hence the name, but approved for use on humans too. Usually brightly coloured.

 

[JAshley73]

From memory - I just pared down my kit slightly, so it's somewhat still fresh. Not all of it medical. Think first aid + handyman repair kit...

-nitrile gloves
-toilet paper
-wet wipes
-hand sanitizer
-plastic grocery bags
-small bandages, steri-strips
-super glue
-gorilla tape (think super duck-tape)
-medical tape
-acetaminophen, ibuprofen, naproxen, stomach-ease med.
-zip ties
-sewing/mending kit
-two wooden floor shims (for splints)
-large 55gal garbage bag (for a palmer furnace)
-candle (in a handy metal tin, also for palmer furnace)
-lighter, waterproof matches
-spare batteries for my primary, and secondary headlamps

All of that in small quantities, in a 1-gallon zip-loc bag, folded down flat, and takes up very little weight & space.

I really need to add aspirin, per the heart attack suggestion!


My Swaygo pack comes with pads, which I replaced with mylar bubble insulation. If I have to sit for a while, they'll make nice insulated pads to sit on.

 

[JAshley73]

Additionally, when the family comes, in their packs, they all get a garbage bag of their own, a piece of mylar insulation (seating pad), spare batteries, and a spare change of gloves & socks maybe.

Add snacks & water as one sees fit.

 

[speleokitty3]

It's not all about first aid for me but also an element of comfort and self-rescue.

On most trips I will take something to eat and drink, a knife and whisel and spare chord/bootlace as well as a sky hook and etrier to help me on climbs since I was injured. . My SRT kit contains a few spare bits such as krabs and a Tibloc.

I will carry extra items in a small BDH container (which is pretty much trashed now so I'm looking for something to replace it) This contains a fleece balaclava, two space blankets, two tea lights and lighter, duct tape, triangular bandage, a few dressings, pain killers, imodium etc. A spare mars bar or similar. This was enough to keep me reasonably warm and comfortable while I was sat in one place for around 6 hours waiting for the rescue team to arrive and fill me up with lots of entonox and morphine. Most of that stuff got used including the duct tape which was used to flag the route to me for the rescue team. Interestingly the triangular bandage stayed in place for around 18 hours (with additional help from a neoprene splint from the rescue team) until I arrived at the hospital.

I used to have an extra kit with bothy bag, Sam splint etc. for more difficult trips but unfortunately, those are beyond me now.

 

[Boy Engineer]

Hopefully enough bits and bobs to make most situations less shit .

That’ll presumably be the Imodium then?

 

[carpet]

Mountain first aid kit:
-for patching body parts: plasters, couple of bandages & dressings in different sizes, electrical tape (wrapped around fork to save space), climbing finger support tape, spray on action plaster (good for grazes and stuff like that)
-drugs: aspirin, paracetamol, antihistamine
-personal comfort: wooden fork (the sort you get with a tesco meal deal) cut down to length of first aid kit, bamboo toothbrush (also cut down), lighter wrapped in duct tape, candle (stored inside one of the gloves which stops it escaping over rest of stuff as Ari mentioned)
-repairing gear: Gerber multi tool (pliers have been used to fix several pieces of equipment, and it has quite a functional rescue blade), cable ties, superglue (good for fixing many things, including reinforcing fingertips if you're destroying them climbing), needle and small amount of thread
-other stuff: tick remover, sterile wipes, 2 pairs disposable gloves

toothbrush and fork can be used as kindling if necessary (although thinking about it I have no idea how well bamboo burns, but it seemed like a good idea when I originally packed the FA kit a few years ago. All packs into the Karrimor case in the attached image, which goes inside my rucksack near the top, or is occasionally clipped to the outside with the tiny green crab (DMM XSRE, captive bar version).

Underground:
depends where I'm going, I'll at the very least have a roll of tape in a pocket though, I have carried all of the above underground a few times though. I think I'll be getting a small Nalgene to pack it all into having seen that in this thread.

The main thing I use that I've not seen anywhere else on here (which is odd given its the single most useful thing I carry for FA) is climbing tape: fantastic stuff, waaaay better at staying on than plasters or anything like that, and can also be used to repair gear. Most places that sell climbing gear should sell it, or amazon.

 

[Bob Mehew]

What is vet wrap?

Try Cohesive Bandage Wrap around a £1 a roll in Poundland I believe. Should add a sterile dressing for wounds if above ground.

 

[huwg]

Mountain first aid kit:
-for patching body parts: plasters, couple of bandages & dressings in different sizes, electrical tape (wrapped around fork to save space), climbing finger support tape, spray on action plaster (good for grazes and stuff like that)
-drugs: aspirin, paracetamol, antihistamine
-personal comfort: wooden fork (the sort you get with a tesco meal deal) cut down to length of first aid kit, bamboo toothbrush (also cut down), lighter wrapped in duct tape, candle (stored inside one of the gloves which stops it escaping over rest of stuff as Ari mentioned)
-repairing gear: Gerber multi tool (pliers have been used to fix several pieces of equipment, and it has quite a functional rescue blade), cable ties, superglue (good for fixing many things, including reinforcing fingertips if you're destroying them climbing), needle and small amount of thread
-other stuff: tick remover, sterile wipes, 2 pairs disposable gloves

toothbrush and fork can be used as kindling if necessary (although thinking about it I have no idea how well bamboo burns, but it seemed like a good idea when I originally packed the FA kit a few years ago. All packs into the Karrimor case in the attached image, which goes inside my rucksack near the top, or is occasionally clipped to the outside with the tiny green crab (DMM XSRE, captive bar version).

Underground:
depends where I'm going, I'll at the very least have a roll of tape in a pocket though, I have carried all of the above underground a few times though. I think I'll be getting a small Nalgene to pack it all into having seen that in this thread.

The main thing I use that I've not seen anywhere else on here (which is odd given its the single most useful thing I carry for FA) is climbing tape: fantastic stuff, waaaay better at staying on than plasters or anything like that, and can also be used to repair gear. Most places that sell climbing gear should sell it, or amazon.

I can't imagine climbing tape working well underground, but this might be poor imagination on my part. Have you used it successfully underground?

Above ground I think it's great stuff, easy to tear, and you can get a decent amount of tension in it. Generally does a great job of sticking to itself and people.
I've only used it for minor climbing related hole cover ups, finger splinting and support, never anything with a large amount of blood though.

 

[carpet]

I can't imagine climbing tape working well underground, but this might be poor imagination on my part. Have you used it successfully underground?

Above ground I think it's great stuff, easy to tear, and you can get a decent amount of tension in it. Generally does a great job of sticking to itself and people.
I've only used it for minor climbing related hole cover ups, finger splinting and support, never anything with a large amount of blood though.

yea it works fine as long as the area you're fixing it to is vaguely clean, and if you've stopped for a first aid break you're probably in a position to find something to wash or wipe mud off - it sticks better to itself than skin anyway at the best of times so as long as you wrap it nice n snug and stick it back to itself it's fine. In particularly challenging conditions I'll pop a layer of that on and then a layer of electrical tape, which is a bit less unpleasant after a few hours than just straight electrical tape. It obviously doesn't particularly like going for long swims but as long as it's out of water more than it's in I don't seem to have issues.

Put some round a finger or something before your next caving trip if you want to test it?

 

[huwg]

yea it works fine as long as the area you're fixing it to is vaguely clean, and if you've stopped for a first aid break you're probably in a position to find something to wash or wipe mud off - it sticks better to itself than skin anyway at the best of times so as long as you wrap it nice n snug and stick it back to itself it's fine. In particularly challenging conditions I'll pop a layer of that on and then a layer of electrical tape, which is a bit less unpleasant after a few hours than just straight electrical tape. It obviously doesn't particularly like going for long swims but as long as it's out of water more than it's in I don't seem to have issues.

Put some round a finger or something before your next caving trip if you want to test it?

Brilliant, that is great to know, cheers for the tip!