First Aid Kits

[Leclused]

For normal/recreation caving - which is the kind of caving that I do - I use a large Swaygo pack, and simply fit what I can in there. Quite a lot actually sometimes... My FAK goes in a 1-gallon plastic Zip-Lock bag. Snacks in another.

our kits are used on several kind of trips

- exploration trips
- multi day expedition exploration trips
- classical trips

That’s whe why our kits have some extra’s
such as water cleaning tablets, differen pain killers and a document to write down the status of a victim to take out of the cave for hand over to the medics when they arrive outside the cave.

 

[Leclused]

Front and back of the medical sheet

 

[kay]

Elastic/stretch bandage

Thanks, thought it was something like that. But why does google go for "swaddle" (which isn't even a noun). Don't answer that, I don't want to derail this excellent thread.

 

[DługaLonża]

My first aid kit:

- SWAT tourniquet
- elastic bandage
- NRC blanket and bag
- chemical heaters
- triangular bandage
- packing gauze
- tape and duct-tape
- NPA with lube
- decompression needle
- drugs (tramadol, metamizolum, paracetamolum, ibuprofenum, loperamide, drotaverinum, moxifloxacinum, ASA)
- trauma shears
- gloves
- sharpie
- band-aids pack
- NaCl 0,9 ampules
- codofix
- needle
- swiss knife

 

[andrewmcleod]

My first aid kit:

- SWAT tourniquet
- elastic bandage
- NRC blanket and bag
- chemical heaters
- triangular bandage
- packing gauze
- tape and duct-tape
- NPA with lube
- decompression needle
- drugs (tramadol, metamizolum, paracetamolum, ibuprofenum, loperamide, drotaverinum, moxifloxacinum, ASA)
- trauma shears
- gloves
- sharpie
- band-aids pack
- NaCl 0,9 ampules
- codofix
- needle
- swiss knife

I'm guessing you have a medical background (and presumably some need of the more unusual, at least in the context of a first aid kit, of those drugs)?

 

[DługaLonża]

I belive weak opioids and some broad-spectrum antibiotics should be in every caver first aid kit. Try to wait few days for a rescue with broken bone and only NSAIDs for analgesia

 

[Graigwen]

I belive weak opioids and some broad-spectrum antibiotics should be in every caver first aid kit. Try to wait few days for a rescue with broken bone and only NSAIDs for analgesia

I remember the good old days when unlocked Mountain Rescue boxes in the hills contained morphine, syringes and instructions on how to administer it safely.

.

 

[hannahb]

I belive weak opioids and some broad-spectrum antibiotics should be in every caver first aid kit. Try to wait few days for a rescue with broken bone and only NSAIDs for analgesia

Is all your caving expedition-style or at least very deep or long trips, in that case? Does seem sensible in those scenarios.

 

[aricooperdavis]

I'm guessing you have a medical background (and presumably some need of the more unusual, at least in the context of a first aid kit, of those drugs)?

Whilst I appreciate that decompressing my tension pneumothorax with a large bore cannula could well save my life, I wouldn't want anyone without a whole load of medical training advancing on me with a massive needle trying to stab me in the chest!

 

[DługaLonża]

Whilst I appreciate that decompressing my tension pneumothorax with a large bore cannula could well save my life, I wouldn't want anyone without a whole load of medical training advancing on me with a massive needle trying to stab me in the chest!

All cavers should be trained in basic life-saving procedures. After all, in cave, we cannot count on anyone's help. In the best case scenario, help will arrive within a dozen or so hours. Tension pneumothorax will kill in 10-20 minutes.

 

[aricooperdavis]

So you have to be able to diagnose that I have a tension pneumothorax and perform a needle decompression effectively to be able to do anything about it. How confident are you that your mates know the differential diagnoses of a tension pneumothorax under pressure (and without being able to google it), and aren't about to stab you in the chest wall because you've broken your rib?

 

[aricooperdavis]

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't have anything in my first aid kit that I wouldn't feel very confident using on myself and my friends, or my friends using on me. A cannula and NPA don't meet that criteria for me.

 

[andrewmcleod]

All cavers should be trained in basic life-saving procedures. After all, in cave, we cannot count on anyone's help. In the best case scenario, help will arrive within a dozen or so hours. Tension pneumothorax will kill in 10-20 minutes.

Given that it's only a temporary solution and does not fix the problem, is often performed incorrectly even by doctors, has serious potential side effects if done incorrectly, and you need to get to hospital quickly for the _actual_ treatment of a chest drain, then the needle won't save you anyway if you are worried about dozens of hours underground.

Personally I'd much rather have a chest seal in the bag, although admittedly that will only help for penetrating injuries.

I love that the decompression needle thing has come back to UKC

 

[andrewmcleod]

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't have anything in my first aid kit that I wouldn't feel very confident using on myself and my friends, or my friends using on me. A cannula and NPA don't meet that criteria for me.

If you do the MREW cas care course (now renamed something I can't remember) then you do cover NPA and OP airways; I can actually see (fortunately not from personal experience) these being potentially useful for an unconscious underground casualty (IF you've got the training), although more so for the transport out so not necessarily required for self-rescue where you won't be moving the casualty and can manage the airway manually (although I imagine that gets boring quickly).

 

[andrewmcleod]

It's deeply frustrating that I can't find the previous thread where someone argued for having a decompression needle in their first aid kit and got shot down by a doctor... I think the search function seems to struggle before the migration to the new version (or maybe it's all in my head).

All mention of needle decompression has been removed from the MREW cas care course (an advanced and assessed first aid course for UK mountain and cave rescuers that comes with some legal privileges); it was previously only mentioned with a big warning that it should only be done by doctors and paramedics. I wouldn't be surprised if it's never been done in a UK cave rescue?

 

[JAshley73]

It's deeply frustrating that I can't find the previous thread where someone argued for having a decompression needle in their first aid kit and got shot down by a doctor... I think the search function seems to struggle before the migration to the new version (or maybe it's all in my head).

site:ukcaving.com decompression needle at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Go into your search engine of choce, and begin with site:ukcaving.com (space) [search query] and it will mine that website for your particular results. I've seen many message boards where the search function doesn't return very good results, but a real search engine will. This is also really useful if you want to find a thread/message that you've posted in the past, but can't find. An example would be...

site:UKcaving.com JAshley73 chest ascender

Will return posts where I was involved, and also mention of chest or ascender

 

[pwhole]

 

[Benfool]

It's deeply frustrating that I can't find the previous thread where someone argued for having a decompression needle in their first aid kit and got shot down by a doctor... I think the search function seems to struggle before the migration to the new version (or maybe it's all in my head).

All mention of needle decompression has been removed from the MREW cas care course (an advanced and assessed first aid course for UK mountain and cave rescuers that comes with some legal privileges); it was previously only mentioned with a big warning that it should only be done by doctors and paramedics. I wouldn't be surprised if it's never been done in a UK cave rescue?

What's in your tackle bag?

Just curious as to what everyone considers the minimum essential kit for your average caving trip in case of emergencies? I currently carry the following: -Spare battery for headlamp -Spare torch -Orange survival bag -Candle -Waterproof matches -Knife -Chocolate -Fleece balaclava This seems to...

ukcaving.com

 

[andrewmcleod]

What's in your tackle bag?

Just curious as to what everyone considers the minimum essential kit for your average caving trip in case of emergencies? I currently carry the following: -Spare battery for headlamp -Spare torch -Orange survival bag -Candle -Waterproof matches -Knife -Chocolate -Fleece balaclava This seems to...

ukcaving.com

Heroic

I spent some time looking for it earlier, including using the Google site: thing, and failed.