Metal Steps KMC
- Thread starter Balmerfish
- Start date
Balmerfish
Member
SamT said:
Chuckle -
Pete K
Well-known member
While an effort to establish who and why must still be made, I think to leave these in would set a precedent for more aids of this type being thought of as acceptable. The agreed anchor scheme is the foundation of environmentally responsibility in the regions and, although the odd random anchor does appear from time to time without issue, the acceptance of via ferratta steps and steel cables is the thin end of a wedge that ends at tacky adventure tourism in every cave site. I install these things as part of my work, but it is a very different thing when you are doing it in a manmade environment (mine) you own, natural cave is off limits IMO.
Perhaps the landowner needs to be asked if he/she consented to this. It is their cave on their land after all. That is a pretty solid yes/no and then they can be pulled out without complaint if they were not consulted.
The CNCC's anchor tester should pull them out no problem and the holes can be plugged with mud to make the area appear natural again. Better than chopping them off.
Perhaps the landowner needs to be asked if he/she consented to this. It is their cave on their land after all. That is a pretty solid yes/no and then they can be pulled out without complaint if they were not consulted.
The CNCC's anchor tester should pull them out no problem and the holes can be plugged with mud to make the area appear natural again. Better than chopping them off.
Pitlamp
Well-known member
Just be wary of dragging landowners into this kind of issue, unnecessarily. In this particular example we enjoy the best possible access (just turn up and go). If caving becomes perceived as hassle by landowners, then ultimately we might not be quite so welcome.
This seems to me to be a problem which the caving community should be able to sort out internally.
This seems to me to be a problem which the caving community should be able to sort out internally.
Simon Beck
Member
Pitlamp said:
Couldn't agree more, especially with the recent change of ownership.
langcliffe
Well-known member
Simon Beck said:
Has Foredale Farm changed hands as well as Braida Garth?
As I understand it KMC is not owned by Braida Garth Farm which did change hands 18 months ago. Braida does own Yordas and some of the fields on the west side of Kingsdale but there are several other landownerships too. I do agree that none of them need to be troubled by this relatively trivial matter. It is something cavers should be able to sort out themselves.
Pete K
Well-known member
Sorry, the bit about asking the landowner was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek. Of course they won't have been asked, but that is the point really, it's not 'our' cave to modify, however you view the access legal situation, whoever did this did so against the majority opinion and without (almost certainly) asking the cave owner.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Pete K said:
What if they had, and the landowner said yes, though?
Pitlamp
Well-known member
Cap'n Chris said:
Without wishing to express any personal opinion on this problem, either way, I feel it would be useful just to mention that many northern cavers are watching this with concern (but see little point in commenting here, or elsewhere, until the facts are established). The number of responses on this forum is often (but by no means always) a guide to the level of interest.
Simon Beck
Member
maxf said:
A notice on the home screen of ukcaving warning that ***** may be lurking is i think more of a priority.
Simon Beck
Member
Inferus said:
Most of the contributors to this thread, whether for or against, have been pretty constructive. The comment I responded to was where, in my opinion, the attempted provocations lies.
Simon Wilson
New member
Pete K said:
By "anchor tester" I assume you mean Hydrajaws. I doubt a Hydrajaws will pull them out.
The BCA own three Hydrajaws testers, one of which I believe is in the hands of the DCA. I have never seen a Hydrajaws.
