S
surreyminer
Guest
AndyF said:
That's all very well for someone who lives near natural stuff but down here it's all we've got.
how's Hangover Hole going BTW?
SM (ex KCC)
Quarry Dean Farm Website
- Thread starter cap n chris
- Start date
That's all very well for someone who lives near natural stuff but down here it's all we've got.
how's Hangover Hole going BTW?
SM (ex KCC)
AndyF
New member
surreyminer said:
Hi,
Putting a gate doesn't mean no access, it just means controlled access. I know there isn't a lot down your end, but a formal access arrangement and an end to this squabble is surely best all round...
As for Hangover, not been there for ages - It's all been Waterways Swallet for the last few years....
www.keyhole.org.uk
Andy
H
hole_in_the_rock
Guest
Peter Burgess said:
Peter, the problems stem from well before John's death.
Shall we start before or after Richard Harrison's death in 2004?
Richard Harrison was Head of the Harrison family until his death in 2004. He was an equal owner of QDF, and as such his permission was also needed for any activity at QDF. You only wrote to him once, and not for access. You wrote about a shaft that you put into the workings (that was against his and John's wishes) and about your club using his land. You never once asked him for his permission, and on occasions took other groups that also knew they needed his permission on trips to QDF for such unlawfull activities as core sample drilling with the HPA.
Even after you sent him this letter, WCMS continued to deceive him and use his land, without ever asking him if it would be acceptable for you to do anything at the land.
After his sudden death in 2004, no-one at WCMS made any contact to either express their sympathy or to ask about the new owner and their consent to visit QDF.
You wrote to John's widow after John's death, but Richard's widow and family did not get any consideration from you or the other misfits in your group when the first of the two brothers died.
Both John and Richard had an equal ownership, it was not all John's land, and your club KNEW this!
Clearly you have no respect for the living or the dead, or for the relatives.
Peter asks for contact,
Peter's club have had contact via:
Stuart Goldsmith (the telephone pest)
M Todd (President to WCMS, and confused in his emails)
Solicitors letters when all else failed.
BUT STILL WCMS DOES NOT REPLY! Even when named and shamed on the Internet.
Peter, your club already owes Richard's widow and family a good reason for the years that your club exploited their heritage and land. You keep asking for contact, yet have had such numerous times to no avail.
Contact has been asked for through this forum, as it is these places that you can be found as you have not bothered to let the owners know how to contact you other than through the SMA (small minded asshole) email address on all your fake QDF contact posts.
So now that we have established that Peter knew of the other equal owner, but did not get his permission for any activity at QDF.
How did WCMS contact the widow? By advertising parties in her dead husbands underground workings, on the Internet. Not in the usual way that would have been expected if WCMS had ever had the permissions from this side of the family.
A letter or sympathy card would have gone down better than further exploitation of the land. But the lack of this highlights the way that Peter and WCMS couldn't give a damn about ownership of any land that they want to use.
So Peter, how about the contact that your club has refused since Richard's death?
I know you like to make people believe that it is the owners that should have contacted you, but you were using their land, and should explain why you did so wihout their agreement or knowledge.
I fail to see how John's death is a factor, when Richard's death wasn't? Double standards no doubt.
Cap n' Chris:
some owners like to know what is happening on their land before the local council act for allowing public access shafts to be built. There are rules and regulations involved, that were not followed, and the owners do not see why they should be paying for destruction done by WCMS. Whilst WCMS was pissing about with "mineral rights" they forgot to check the conditions of the covenant that governed the use of the land. A covenant that set out that the covenant owner and both equal owners would have needed to have signed before any stone could be removed from QDF, and before any shaft could be built.
If one of the three involved did not give written permission, such shaft could be legally built. And guess what, Richard never gave his.
Richard's side of the ownership welcomes contact from honest and trustworthy people, and an email address for such is on their site.
As Richard has never allowed charges to be made for the three visits per year, his family would like to know where all the money that WCMS illegally gained has gone to, and would like to see every visitor get a full refund.
Is this really an established route taken by other clubs? Deceive as many people as possible into paying for something that the club has no rights to, and advertisisng it to maximise any possible returns? When caught out, blame the owner for not telling you that PRIVATE LAND means STAY OFF.
If your theory is true, then 20 or more cubs would be running from QDF and advertising it as their own. This has not happened, so I assume your theory to be severly flawed. It is not the normal route, and quite unlawfull too.
H
hole_in_the_rock
Guest
Jagman said:
Some of my comments do indeed come direct from one of the owners, who I am in regular contact with regarding visits past present and future.
I have copies of the correspondance that I have mentioned, that will show anyone reading that Peter and his WCMS friends have been deceiving not only the owners, but everyone they took to QDF.
I can show you the damage that they and their visitors have done, and show you the records of the people removing (stealing) artefacts. Some of the stolen arefacts are listed on various caving websites, with the names of the peole responsible. The owners have been in contact with CNHSS who have managed to receive some of these stolen items, but one of the Trustees of CNHSS who is known as the man responsible for drawing up the rules governing artefact "removal" is refusing to return them.
I can show you the CNHSS letters which contain a confession by PW Sowan that he has trespassed without permission since MW Harrisons days and confessing that the CNHSS took in artefacts without any proper docummentation.
With caving clubs closing ranks on owners property, and with museums and historical societes taking in stolen arefacts, there is some concern about letting others go to the area.
There is an ownership issue with the other equal owner, as their rights to the property will have to be "proved" by law, before they can be asked for their part of the necessary permissions, however this should not stop people from enquiring about access.
Email Martin at the QDF site. He has a legal right to answer enquiries for one of the two owners, despite what Peter the pretender want others to believe.
Peter, and WCMS, as we all know, can not reply for the owners as they have been asked to refrain from further deceptions. Peter would also have you think that I am nothing to do with the area, and have no rights to be shaming him and his club through the Internet. I have far more rights than Peter, which I can also show you, along with the property details, ownership details, covenants etc which Peter is unable to show.
Peter and WCMS have been asked to send any documment that gave them any access rights to use QDF, but still have not found any. Peter is asked again to send this to the Harrison family, John's side and Richard's side. Peter has the addresses of both, so has no reason to FAIL this simple request again.
This is Peters chance to try to ease his clubs unlawfull activitis and to make ammends for years of deceipt and exploitation. The family have been waiting since efore Richard's death, for them to make contact, so lets hope that Peter is not the spineless untruthfull individual that he has portrayed himself to be so far, and can actually do the decent thing and make contact with the legal owners, explaining his deceipt and his clubs unlawfull activities.
Peter's open invitation is taken up again:
tell us all Peter.
bubba
Administrator
What the hell has that got to do with anything?hole_in_the_rock said:
Ok, hole_in_the_rock, take this as a final warning. There are no personal insults allowed on this board and if you carry on you'll get banned.hole_in_the_rock said:
I'm also generally sick and tired of your unbelievably childish and offensive manner of posting on these forums. Either start being civil to people or I'll ban you permanently for the simple reason that I don't like your attitude.
cap n chris
Well-known member
hole_in_the_rock said:
From the above edited comments may I presume:-
a) you're going to ring the police and...
b) hand yourself in for defamation?
cap n chris
Well-known member
.... or should someone else do it for you?
S
stuart j goldsmith
Guest
[/quote From hole in the rock Stuart Goldsmith (the telephone pest) ]
For all you out there , 1 mobile call, 2 bt calls constitutes a telephone pest.
He will not be getting any more from me, it his turn to ring.
For all you out there , 1 mobile call, 2 bt calls constitutes a telephone pest.
He will not be getting any more from me, it his turn to ring.
