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Rescue in Thailand

T

TelegramSam

New member
Hi all, first post here as a new caver and less new diver (yet to put the two together).

Does anyone know why they can't pump air from the cave entrance to full-face masks for the boys (as in surface-supplied diving)? That way they don't need bulky cylinders, there's no risk of running out of air and full-face masks mitigate the risk of regulators getting lost. I know it's a long way, but it looks fairly straight and you don't have to worry about a great deal of pressure from the water so you wouldn't need a monster-sized compressor.
 
L

Leo

New member
TelegramSam said:
Hi all, first post here as a new caver and less new diver (yet to put the two together).

Does anyone know why they can't pump air from the cave entrance to full-face masks for the boys (as in surface-supplied diving)? That way they don't need bulky cylinders, there's no risk of running out of air and full-face masks mitigate the risk of regulators getting lost. I know it's a long way, but it looks fairly straight and you don't have to worry about a great deal of pressure from the water so you wouldn't need a monster-sized compressor.
Click to expand...

Hi TelegramSam, looking closely at the surveys makes it look like the passages have many twists and turns so I suspect that friction would be a problem if you want to run anything though the cave that cannot be rolled up like a telephone cable. The same goes for Elon Musk's "nylon tube" idea that was in the news today. Presumably surface supplied diving means that the umbilical would have to move through the cave and therefore encounter friction?

This sounds like an extremely complex rescue and I have the utmost respect for all the rescue teams.
Alexander
 
bograt

bograt

Active member
Subterranean underwater rescue was the theme of a CDG conference held back in the '80's in Derbyshire, anyone recall anything from that that could be useful-- (Pitlamp et-al??) ?.
 
Wayland Smith

Wayland Smith

Active member
The huge problem with Elon Musk sending "expert helpers"
is that people who could be better employed will have to waste time briefing them and dealing with impractical ideas! o_O
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
That was an excellent symposium and it was all written up in a BCRA publication. (I remember you gave a good lecture there TJ.) But I doubt it contains anything which those directly involved aren't already aware of.

Inevitably here has been a lot of speculation. The folk we have over there now - cave divers and other cave rescue personnel - are all extremely experienced and competent. They are being backed up by people from the world of cave rescue here at home. They'll be doing their level best to do whatever is necessary to bring this incident to a satisfactory outcome. Let's hope that, ultimately, there's plenty of good news.
 
I

IanWalker

Active member
The CDG article i linked earlier refers to two 1980s sump rescue meetings and provides a reference to Caves and Caving.

marysboy said:
https://cavedivinggroup.org.uk/sump-rescue/
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"Two meetings, in 1986 and 1988, brought cave divers and cave rescuers together for the first time at national level, to work jointly on the serious problem of how to rescue injured persons through long and difficult sumps. The first meeting served mainly to highlight the main aspects of this serious problem. The second one concentrated on practical aspects of such work and examined the progress made in tackling the problems previously identified."

"The reader is referred to the account of the British Sump Rescue Symposium of 1986 published in Caves & Caving Vol. 14, No. 1 (April 1987)."
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
I thought the definitive account was published in an edition of BCRA Cave Science.
(Can't easily look it up as I type - am preoccupied with something else at the moment - maybe someone could have a look?)

People like Bill Whitehouse, who is a key player in the British efforts on the current Thai rescue, were very much involved in those two symposia - and are well aware of the findings.

Incidentally, one of the main reasons those symposia were held was the fact that many caving trips were taking place in Notts II. This had just been discovered and, at the time, the only way out was via a 210 m sump back into old Notts. But the current Thai cave rescue situation is not really the same of course.
 
I

IanWalker

Active member
CAVE SCIENCE Vo l. 14, No.1, April 1987 Transactions of the British Cave Research Association
The First British Sump Rescue Symposium
Proceedings of the Symposium
Organised by the Cave Diving Group and the British Cave Rescue Council
Castleton, Derbyshire, June 7th 1986

That issue, including the very informative article, is freely available online here:
http://cavescience2-cloud.bcra.org.uk/2_CaveScience/ckc020.pdf

The back catalogue of BCRA Transactions, Cave Science, Cave and Karst Science is available online. Anyone can view the journals from 1974 through to 2005; this is a fantastic resource of British speleological science. http://bcra.org.uk/pub/candks/catalogue.html
 
yrammy

yrammy

Member
The rescue is underway. See the Guardian live feed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/jul/08/thailand-cave-rescue-operation-divers-trapped-boys-live
 
R

RichardB1983

Member
Wolfo said:
A bit fast from my feeling....
Click to expand...

Some stories saying they've managed to un-roof part of the sumps in some places with pumping, sufficient that some bits will be walking rather than diving - and that the monsoon rains have just restarted are forecast to get heavier - possibly flooding the area that they had sought shelter on, as well as reflooding the sumps. Sounds like the decision has been made to go now before the rains return and make it potentially an even more tricky rescue
 
paul

paul

Moderator
RichardB1983 said:
Wolfo said:
A bit fast from my feeling....
Click to expand...

Some stories saying they've managed to un-roof part of the sumps in some places with pumping, sufficient that some bits will be walking rather than diving - and that the monsoon rains have just restarted are forecast to get heavier - possibly flooding the area that they had sought shelter on, as well as reflooding the sumps. Sounds like the decision has been made to go now before the rains return and make it potentially an even more tricky rescue
Click to expand...

From the latest BCRC Media Briefing:

Update for teams and media compiled 09:00h BST, Sunday 8 July 2018

1. Chief of operations ? Governor Narongsak Osottanakorn - confirmed that today is the best day to undertake the extraction of the trapped group. The rescue team comprises 13 international divers and 5 Thai navy SEAL divers, all ready, and the weather is also permitting. Following an assessment
from the Australian doctor yesterday, he confirmed that the trapped are mentally and physically well enough to move. Their families have been informed. The chief confirmed the operation had started at 10:00h today and the earliest time the rescuers will exit the cave is 21:00h today. NO CLEAR INDICATION THAT 13 OF THEM WILL BE OUT AT THE SAME TIME. It is stressed that it is a continuous mission.

2. Details on the mission. One child will be accompanied by two divers. The water level in chamber 1, 2 and 3 has dropped. Hence, it's is walkable in these chambers. The Chief confirmed too that the rescue exercise has been practised prior to today's mission. The Deputy Commander of Region concurs with the Chief that this is the best in terms of timing and plans of the rescue. He asked for everyone's cooperation to remain at least 200 metres further away from where the main operation
is based (cave's entrance).

3. A representative from Chiang Rai Public Health Office confirmed that the doctor and paramedics are standing by to provide medical attention whenever the rescue team emerge. Deputy director of DDPM They continue to monitor the electricity and the water level in the cave.
 
R

RichardB1983

Member
The BBC, quoting Thai news media on their live update news page, have said that the first two boys are out of the cave - but stress that there has been no official word.

<edit>Also the lunch-time news has shown footage of an ambulance leaving the cave entrance - believed to contain the first two
 
paul

paul

Moderator
"Lieutenant-General Kongcheep Tantrawanit has said another four of the boys are expected to walk out "shortly".

They are currently at the divers' "base camp", inside the cave system, he said.

"Four boys have reached chamber three and will walk out of the cave shortly," he said, according to news agency AFP."
 
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