Don't quite see why people are using a 7mm (or any) maillon to connect jammer leash to central maillon? Isn't it easier just to pop the central maillon through the knot? That's what I do and assumed everyone else does the same? Or have I been doing something lethal all these years :shock: ?
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- Thread starter ian mckenzie
- Start date
SamT
Moderator
Nothing wrong with that,
I think the mallion is used because in many an self rescue situation - the footloop and leash section of rope becomes a handy bit of kit - (counter balances for getting unconsious victims off the rope or getting slack in the system for hauling, tied to make a sling etc etc.) By having it on a mallion, its easier to remove it from your D should you need to.
When the Eldon went on one of Nigel Atkins Advanced SRT and Self rescue days, the first hour practiacally was spent discussing :argue: about our SRT rigs. Everybody has a slightly different set up. Nobody's was wrong particularly, but what nigel was trying to do was to get everybody to think about WHY their set up was so.
i.e.
Why do I put my rack on the left of my croll - because it doesnt interfere with the cam on the croll.
Why do i use a D not a Delta.
Why do I have my jammer leash on a mallion.
Why do I use steel D instead of alloy.
So long as everybody has thought about why you do these things, and can come up with valid answers - then fine, what ever works for you. 8)
Chest straps are an interesting one, many people I know use bungee, from their harness - over their shoulders to the croll - quick - easy and it works. I use a strap however for the one reason that if Im rendered unconsious whilst jugging, by using a strap - I'll remain upright. (you dont with bungee - I tried it).
It just takes a few seconds more to thread it each time I have to take it on/off.
I think the mallion is used because in many an self rescue situation - the footloop and leash section of rope becomes a handy bit of kit - (counter balances for getting unconsious victims off the rope or getting slack in the system for hauling, tied to make a sling etc etc.) By having it on a mallion, its easier to remove it from your D should you need to.
When the Eldon went on one of Nigel Atkins Advanced SRT and Self rescue days, the first hour practiacally was spent discussing :argue: about our SRT rigs. Everybody has a slightly different set up. Nobody's was wrong particularly, but what nigel was trying to do was to get everybody to think about WHY their set up was so.
i.e.
Why do I put my rack on the left of my croll - because it doesnt interfere with the cam on the croll.
Why do i use a D not a Delta.
Why do I have my jammer leash on a mallion.
Why do I use steel D instead of alloy.
So long as everybody has thought about why you do these things, and can come up with valid answers - then fine, what ever works for you. 8)
Chest straps are an interesting one, many people I know use bungee, from their harness - over their shoulders to the croll - quick - easy and it works. I use a strap however for the one reason that if Im rendered unconsious whilst jugging, by using a strap - I'll remain upright. (you dont with bungee - I tried it).
It just takes a few seconds more to thread it each time I have to take it on/off.
paul
Moderator
SamT said:
I use a chest strap as well (the single, long thin webbing with a buckle on one end arranged in a figure-of around the chest and shoulders). Everybody else seems to unthread and thread the strap each time they put their SRT rig on and off.
When removing the SRT gear, I have always just pulled by arms through, elbow first, leaving a double loop from croll to neck. Then slip these off over my head and leave it as it is (but tie the loops with an overhand knot to keep things together). I remove the croll from harness and pack it.
When it comes to puttimg the SRT gear on, all I have to do is connect the croll to the central maillon, undo the overhand knot looseley tied in the strap then flip both loops over my head after sliding the loops around until the buckle is on the correct side. Next all I have to do is slip my arms through the correct loop (again with the buckle in the aprroximately correct position). Voila, about 5 seconds and its on with no rethreading.
SamT
Moderator
yeah - I have seen it done like that, I cut my strap shorter when I first got it (far too much slack in it dangling about) so now its too tight to slip off. However - thinking about getting a new one soon (I was a bit too keen in cutting it and its about an inch too short now (or Im getting bigger :shock: )).
Now then - heres another one. Those lads that got lost in Peak and were found coming back out of JH having lost some of their kit. I thought - how could you loose some of your kit. (jammers etc)
Why is there any need to take anything on/off your D/harness (well apart from at home whilst your cleaning/checking it for wear (noticed the day that I have virtually no teeth left on my jammer :shock: ).
I always just undo the D slip one of the harness loops off, then do the D back up again to keep everything in place.
Now then - heres another one. Those lads that got lost in Peak and were found coming back out of JH having lost some of their kit. I thought - how could you loose some of your kit. (jammers etc)
Why is there any need to take anything on/off your D/harness (well apart from at home whilst your cleaning/checking it for wear (noticed the day that I have virtually no teeth left on my jammer :shock: ).
I always just undo the D slip one of the harness loops off, then do the D back up again to keep everything in place.
S
Speleomarcus
Guest
Sam hits the nail on the head, you need to tune your own rig, and now how you use the components to the best advantage. In practice most cavers have there own way of keeping all the components organised and out of the way until the need them without the need to detach from the central D.
R
riders
Guest
Hello All, I think that loading only one harness loop (with say your stop) will reduce the factor of safetly of the system. Normally the D link spreads the load into each loop - a proportion of the vertical load based on the angles (like a Y hang). If the stop is in only one loop the force will be direct around the loop and infact be nearly doubled in the lower part of the loop (between the D link and where it is sewed back onto the harness.
Also, IMHO, we (cavers), when on rope, should always have down and up gear attached and ready to be used. Messing around with kit and the risk of dropping gear at an inopportune moment could mean a rescue.
Regards,
Stick
Also, IMHO, we (cavers), when on rope, should always have down and up gear attached and ready to be used. Messing around with kit and the risk of dropping gear at an inopportune moment could mean a rescue.
Regards,
Stick
ian mckenzie
New member
I don't think any one suggested loading only one loop of a two-loop harness with your Stop. The discussion was about a second biner/maillon which *also* links thru *both* loops. Plus we were also talking about a harness design that has only one loop.
T
tubby two
Guest
:idea: How about not dropping your stop? surely its not a major problem (well, unless you actually do), but i never heard of anyone dropping a stop. Pretty dim trick. :tom:
I always put mine on a side gear loop when not in use to stop my D-ring being cluttered, i dont think the 2 seconds it takes to put in place really slows down your caving days!
rigging extra gear loops on the sides of your harness helps, ex. short sling where the leg/waist loops join keeps side loops emptier. I'd have thought these being full is more of a hassle that a cluttered D-ring.
I always put mine on a side gear loop when not in use to stop my D-ring being cluttered, i dont think the 2 seconds it takes to put in place really slows down your caving days!
rigging extra gear loops on the sides of your harness helps, ex. short sling where the leg/waist loops join keeps side loops emptier. I'd have thought these being full is more of a hassle that a cluttered D-ring.
Stu
Active member
As you say... It's not until you do! Dropping it whilst on (?) the ground or in passage will present no unassailable problems. I have had to make a rapid descent from jugging twice, once to aid a friend, once to get out of some rising water. Knowing it was in place was reassuring.
IMHO the width of one extra 'biner takes up next to no space (about 10mm?).
:twisted:
IMHO the width of one extra 'biner takes up next to no space (about 10mm?).
:twisted:
