My chest ascender rant

[aricooperdavis]

<rant>

I believe that chest ascenders should open to the left. This is because I want the following, in order of importance:

1. my hand ascender tether to be on my central attachment point on the opposite side to the side that my chest ascender opens, so as not to interfere with my ability to open my chest ascender when weighted.
2. my hand ascender tether to be on the same side of my chest ascender as the hand that I'm holding it in, so that the tether doesn't cross the pitch rope, requiring it to be passed around the pitch rope at rebelays or pitch heads.
3. my hand ascender to be held, primarily, in my dominant hand (right).
4. my footloop to be worn on my dominant foot (right).

With a traditional chest ascender that opens to the right I can only have 1 and 2 if I forgo 3 and 4. Alternatively I can have 1, 3, and 4, and forgo 2.

What I actually do is have my hand ascender tether not on my central attachment point but on a maillon on my right harness attachment point, rendering 1 unnecessary so I can happily have 2, 3, and 4.

If I could buy a decent left opening chest ascender I could have 1, 2, 3, and 4, without bodging my kit in a way that it isn't designed to be used.

</rant>

 

[cap n chris]

They don't. So perhaps try this.

If you have a foot jammer (Pantin or equivalent) you can dispense entirely with the footloop from your handjammer (remove it - if it's a sling or equivalent - and roll it neatly away and stow in a pocket). You can also dispense with your handjammer-to-central-maillon connecting rope IF you clip your long safety connector (aka cowstail) to your handjammer. Having a physical connection between you and the handjammer is imperative. The footjammer less so/not at all.

You may then find life becomes simpler, less cluttered, more efficient and impresses everyone around you. You have a handjammer to pull upon, a footjammer to push up upon and a croll to hold you while resting. Your footloop is available for those rare occasions when it would be happy so unravel it and clip it on as required. S'win.

 

[cap n chris]

<rant>

1. my hand ascender tether to be on my central attachment point on the opposite side to the side that my chest ascender opens, so as not to interfere with my ability to open my chest ascender when weighted.

</rant>

I understand. I do.

But for anyone who doesn't.. general guidance has it that the croll should have nothing whatsoever blocking it from being opened in the normal course of events. Everything on the central maillon should be on the "flat" side of the croll, so the opening side is free to be operated at will; otherwise doing a descent-to-ascent changeover is more of a pig than it needs be.

Invoice address?

 

[Cassidy]

Yep, go alpine style - hand jammer on your long cow's tail. Oh, and stop ranting

 

[cap n chris]

And it's not a pig doing a changeover in either direction if you ignore the wisdom-handed-down-over-the-centuries.

 

[aricooperdavis]

I should have clarified that when I say hand ascender tether I include long cows-tail in that definition, as it becomes a hand ascender tether when used as one.

If you have a foot jammer (Pantin or equivalent) you can dispense entirely with the footloop from your handjammer (remove it - if it's a sling or equivalent - and roll it neatly away and stow in a pocket). You can also dispense with your handjammer-to-central-maillon connecting rope IF you clip your long safety connector (aka cowstail) to your handjammer. Having a physical connection between you and the handjammer is imperative. The footjammer less so/not at all.

I like this approach, but I'd still want my hand ascender tether on the non-opening side of my chest ascender and my hand ascender in my dominant (right) hand, so the tether would still cross the pitch rope.

I should also add that I'm very happy with the solution I've come to, and don't find it a hassle at all, I just wish this one simple design change could be made to render it unnecessary!

 

[aricooperdavis]

So you basically want a mirror image of my setup? Would work fine. All you need is to snap up a chest ascender that opens the other way. Simples.

It would be, I just can only find 1 in existence from a brand I'm not familiar with (linked above)!

 

[JAshley73]

I'm left-handed. Everything is to the left of my Croll on the D-ring.

For once in life, left me have this Left-Handed thing!!!

 

[JAshley73]

If you don't mind the fact that the Carabiner hole is fastened on by only a single rivet, it looks like a SkyloTec GetUp ascender would happily substitute a Croll.

 

[JoshW]

I attach my safety link/hand jammer/footloop to a carabiner to the right hand loop that the central maillon attaches to.

This gives me:
Hand jammer on dominant side
Croll on far right of maillon (easier to open with stronger hand)
Enough space to the right of the croll to open it even when the hand jammer safety link is fairly tight

 

[mikem]

It would be, I just can only find 1 in existence from a brand I'm not familiar with (linked above)!

Link is in:

Left handed chest ascenders?

I also have a new croll and find it turns when loaded im also not convinced on the new steel plates on the alloy with those two not react and cause the alloy to corrode?

ukcaving.com

 

[Chash]

I’ve had this problem, bought a new right footed pantin, switched my hand jammer (basic) and footloop to left, no problem now. Doesn’t matter which is dominant hand if you don’t pull up, but use your legs.

 

[aricooperdavis]

That is a decent workaround, but undesirable for me for a few reasons:

- it puts the hand ascender in my non-dominant hand, so it's harder for me to operate at rebelays etc.
- it takes my dominant foot out of the footloop, which is where it should be for max efficiency
- I'm rubbish at switching pantin feet - my brain really struggles getting the rope walking timing right

 

[PeteHall]

- it takes my dominant foot out of the footloop, which is where it should be for max efficiency
- I'm rubbish at switching pantin feet - my brain really struggles getting the rope walking timing right

Your second comment is explained by your first.

When you walk, run, climb the stairs, climb up a ladder etc. your right hand moves with your left foot and your left hand moves with your right foot.

If you join your right hand jammer to your right foot, your brain will always be confused and you'll never manage to rope walk.

(Sorry if this has been said above previously, not re-read the whole topic)

 

[aricooperdavis]

That's an interesting point!

I always have my hand ascender on the same side as my foot loop, because I don't want my foot-loop crossing the pitch rope, as it makes transitions smoother. So perhaps I'm not good at mentally transitioning my pantin foot (when rope walking, it's fine when frogging) because I've had to force my brain to learn this same-side behaviour.

 

[aricooperdavis]

If you join your right hand jammer to your right foot, your brain will always be confused and you'll never manage to rope walk.

Although I have no issue with rope walking with my hand ascender and footloop on the same side (when it's on the RHS!).

 

[JAshley73]

@aricooperdavis I was cruising eBay and had the thought - what if you used a regular, right handed ascender like a Petzl Basic, and just attached it to your D-ring with a short mallion? You'd get your left-hand opening chest ascender that way.

 

[Rachel]

If you join your right hand jammer to your right foot, your brain will always be confused and you'll never manage to rope walk.

I had to switch my right footed pantin for a left one because I'm completely unable to move my hand jammer up the rope without also lifting my right foot that isn't even in a foot loop

 

[aricooperdavis]

@aricooperdavis I was cruising eBay and had the thought - what if you used a regular, right handed ascender like a Petzl Basic, and just attached it to your D-ring with a short mallion? You'd get your left-hand opening chest ascender that way.

Hmmm... now there's an idea. The downsides I can think of would be that it wouldn't necessarily take a chest harness, and would put your attachment point higher up your body, which has efficiency implications. Also it feels like a scary botch to be doing with life-critical equipment!

 

[JAshley73]

Hmmm... now there's an idea. The downsides I can think of would be that it wouldn't necessarily take a chest harness, and would put your attachment point higher up your body, which has efficiency implications. Also it feels like a scary botch to be doing with life-critical equipment!

A short mallion would only add an inch of height to the chest ascender. I'm not sure how that would compare to a Croll's length, but I would say almost negligible.

A mallion, that's wrench-tightened would be as stout & trustworthy there, equally as much as when used on a bolt-anchor, or on a climbing ascender, or anywhere else frankly...

A Petzl Basic (and others really) has a hole in the top for a carabiner. Certainly if a carabiner will fit through there, the webbing from a chest ascender would too...?