My chest ascender rant

Hmmm... now there's an idea. The downsides I can think of would be that it wouldn't necessarily take a chest harness, and would put your attachment point higher up your body, which has efficiency implications. Also it feels like a scary botch to be doing with life-critical equipment! šŸ˜…
I've done that myself while cobbling together a second srt kit from bits and bobs and a climbing harness to lend to someone (I used that spare part one and they used the good one), it works, you might want a very small maillon in the top of the basic for the chest ascender to use. Not sure that it's any less safe, but it is a pretty "ugly" especially when mounted on a triangular maillon on the legs/waist of a climbing harness but totally useable. Definitely not my first choice though

Edit, not sure if the height of the chest ascender is efficiency issue as such. If the chest harness keeps it pulled tightly towards your chest, they it is more gearing than efficiency. More smaller step ups but as you're being kept more vertically it's easier, so like selecting a lower gear. (Providing it's tight to the chest)
 
Tangential question - Is it OK to use a bungee cord on the top of the chest ascender, so that it's always held taught when climbing? Or is that a no-no?

I know bungee can be hazardous in some places where items can fly backwards, but the chest ascender is captured on both ends... So....?
 
A short mallion would only add an inch of height to the chest ascender. I'm not sure how that would compare to a Croll's length, but I would say almost negligible.

A mallion, that's wrench-tightened would be as stout & trustworthy there, equally as much as when used on a bolt-anchor, or on a climbing ascender, or anywhere else frankly...

A Petzl Basic (and others really) has a hole in the top for a carabiner. Certainly if a carabiner will fit through there, the webbing from a chest ascender would too...?
An 8mm Standard M/R would lift your chest ascender 58mm from your central attachment connector. 8mm ones are certified as PPE. 7mm Standard and 7mm Long ones, which most people use for general rigging, are not certified as PPE. A 7mm Standard M/R would lift your chest ascender 52mm. Lifting your chest ascender by over 2" is going to reduce your maximum possible step height by the same. Like Cantclimbtom, I've tried it. It's more like climbing in an industrial rope access harness which has a much higher waist belt and ventral attachment point. Not very efficient compared to a typical low C of G SRT harness.

Non PPE rated M/R's are regarded as being 'lifting gear' and have a WLL marked on them (5:1 FOS). They are all plenty strong enough for what we might use them for, as long as you screw them up properly.

The French company 'Peguet' is the manufacturer of Maillon Rapide connectors and they will usually only certify PPE products if there is a sufficient market for them. Getting, and maintaining PPE certification is a very expensive process. 8mm M/R's are usually the smallest diameter bar used in industry.

In industry, they are all generally used where a 'more permanent' attachment is required, e.g., attaching a lanyard to a scaffolder's harness (not that they usually clip the other end into anything!). They are not best suited when the connector is opened and closed on a regular basis, as we are more likely to use them, and particularly when we use alloy ones and bung all the threads up with mud nearly every time we open and close it.

In an industrial environment, if you were risk assessing the most suitable type of single connector for your harness and all your lanyards and rope adjustment devices (ascenders & descenders), and it needed to be opened and closed regularly, then you wouldn't usually choose an EN362 Type Q M/R, that requires the sleeve to be torqued up every time you put it on. The torque setting depends on the diameter (not that I've ever seen anyone torque them up). It's usually just a nip with a spanner to make it less likely to unscrew itself during use, e.g., rope or webbing moving against the screwed sleeve, or unscrewing due to vibration.

In industry, it's much more likely we would choose a suitably shaped, EN362 triple action, carabiner type connector, e.g., Petzl Omni Triact.

There is plenty of evidence of insufficiently screwed up M/R's completely opening up under load. I've seen a steel D M/R open up almost into a straight bar. The Petzl Omni Triact, and other similar type connectors were developed to help mitigate the hazards associated with incorrectly screwed up M/R's that needed to be fully opened and closed more regularly.

The RRP of a Petzl Omni Triact is £32.40, so not cheep when compared with, e.g., a steel D M/R for £9.00, but not expensive when your whole life depends on it for every aspect of SRT that you might perform.

It makes me laugh when people talk of 2 points of attachment for passing obstacles in caves. We only wear 1 harness and everything we use for going up and down and sideways is attached to our central harness attachment connector. Omni Triact for me every time. I first used D M/R's over 40 years ago. Things have moved on.

Tangential question - Is it OK to use a bungee cord on the top of the chest ascender, so that it's always held taught when climbing? Or is that a no-no?

I know bungee can be hazardous in some places where items can fly backwards, but the chest ascender is captured on both ends... So....?
I used to use a bungee cord for my chest ascender. I wore it as a large loop in a Fig. 8 configuration, with the cross at the back and my arms through the loops. I clipped my left bungee loop into a small carbine hook on the top of my Croll. This kept the ascender upright and flat against my body when not in use. I would then pull the right hand loop and clip into the carbine hook for when I needed to start climbing. It was a great, lightweight system, if you weren't carrying any bags. If you were carrying heavy bags up pitches, the bungee cord dug in a bit too much for shoulder comfort. I've used a Petzl Torse since they first came out and wouldn't change to a different one. I might go back to a bungee cord system when my belly is too big to get the Torse shoulder strap to reach the buckle. It is a bit short.
 
7mm Standard and 7mm Long ones, which most people use for general rigging, are not certified as PPE
There are definitely 7mm PPE rated maillons out there, although last time I ordered them from Lyon it took months for them to get here!

Agreed very much on the fact that they’re not screwed up ā€˜to spec’, in fact I’m generally rigging finger tight rather than spanner tight (and certainly not carrying a torque wrench with me), I make the judgement call when rigging that I reduce the chance of them coming undone through rubbing by the way I rig, and if they were to come undone and the rope managed to pop out that I’m hanging from multiple anchors throughout.
 
There are definitely 7mm PPE rated maillons out there, although last time I ordered them from Lyon it took months for them to get here!
I've just checked the Lyon b2b site and you are right about the 7mm Long PPE rated ones. They are only available to order and I assume Peguet will wait until there is a big enough order to change their production line for applying different markings and supplying the different user instructions.

I've had 200 of the similar 7mm long 'lifting gear' versions on order for over a month and I'm not expecting delivery until the first week in September. They'll hopefully arrive before the expedition that bought them head off.

The 'lifting gear' ones are literally half the price of the PPE version if you buy a box of 100.
 
So a 6mm Kong Mallion, is 47mm inside, minus 6mm wire diameter = you would raise the basic ascender by 41mm, or roughly 1-5/8". Shows a max safe working limit of 650kg, or roughly 1,450lbs. (Breaking strength is 3,250kg, or 32.5 kn...)

I guess it's not technically rated as PPE, sure. Up to the user to make that decision - just like any other piece of kit.

 
I recently bought 40 PPE rated 7mm longs for rigging a current project - mainly as Access Techniques is round the corner, and they got them direct from Lyon anyway. I didn't mind paying a bit more for the cert, though I'm sure non-rated would have been just as good for our purposes, but hey-ho - they'll be left in for a while, so they'll still look a bit manky by the time they come out. Worth it though ;)
 
...It makes me laugh when people talk of 2 points of attachment for passing obstacles in caves...
Thanks Mark! - glad it's not just me that has always found this to be an illogical and bizarre statement. Obviously for noobs there's zero* harm in attachingthefcukoutofeverything [*until it results in the oh-so-predictable tapestry(ies) of mirth and exhaustion].
 
Tangential question - Is it OK to use a bungee cord on the top of the chest ascender, so that it's always held taught when climbing? Or is that a no-no?

I know bungee can be hazardous in some places where items can fly backwards, but the chest ascender is captured on both ends... So....?
Right or wrong, I use shock cord instead of a 'proper' chest harness, always have done. Love it. A chest harness is only really used to keep the chest ascender upright anyway, isn't it? Nothing does that better than shock cord IMO.

It does make tackle bag hauling off the main attachment difficult as the weight of the bag pulls the whole harness down. For big derigs I would swop to a tape type chest harness, but mostly I just use a side attachment to hang the bag off. Works for me, won't work for everyone.
 
Tangential question - Is it OK to use a bungee cord on the top of the chest ascender, so that it's always held taught when climbing? Or is that a no-no?

I know bungee can be hazardous in some places where items can fly backwards, but the chest ascender is captured on both ends... So....?

I have just started to ā€œexperimentā€ with using a small loop of shock cord attached to the top of the ascender and then thread my chest harness through that. Hoping it will add a bit of comfort without losing any efficiency (I can’t afford to lose any of that šŸ˜‚)
 
I have just started to ā€œexperimentā€ with using a small loop of shock cord attached to the top of the ascender and then thread my chest harness through that. Hoping it will add a bit of comfort without losing any efficiency (I can’t afford to lose any of that šŸ˜‚)
Many years ago, I was told of a trick where a road push bike inner tube could be used as a chest harness. I did give this a go on a club SRT training day a couple of days ago and it worked. Kept a good tension on the chest jammer with the stretchiness and was more comfortable than a tightened up Torse. I can see problems underground with it snagging on protrusions, but have never tried it in a cave.
 
Many years ago, I was told of a trick where a road push bike inner tube could be used as a chest harness. I did give this a go on a club SRT training day a couple of days ago and it worked. Kept a good tension on the chest jammer with the stretchiness and was more comfortable than a tightened up Torse. I can see problems underground with it snagging on protrusions, but have never tried it in a cave.
I know someone who's only chest harness is an inner tube, he's mainly an arborist but I've been on a couple of srt trips with him and it worked for him just fine. But neither trip had any particularly tight sections so unsure if how much it'd snag. He's someone who could almost get claustrophobic up a tree, so yet to see this anywhere tight
 
Back
Top