The Black Dog - mental health awareness
- Thread starter SamT
- Start date
Alex
Well-known member
I think we all need to see the light at the end of the tunnel Geerbil007, I am very good with emotional stuff, but can I ask when you were last out on your bike, long distant biking is something you love is it not? The lock-down rules don't preclude it, I say you are long past treating yourself to several long rides if that's what you like doing. Forget the rules if that worries you I know no one who has been fined cycling thier bike. Do what makes you happy and be kind to yourself. I bet you are a wonderful father and are quite literally irreplaceable. Never forget that.
aricooperdavis
Moderator
There's a huge amount of stigma around medicating for depression, but this thread gave me the push I needed to ask my GP about it. For me it was a 10 minute phone call with my GP, a short walk to Boots the following day, and a ?9.15 prescription charge. It has to be worth a try, Geerbil007? You're not alone, there are a lot of people suffering with you, and more paths to a better future than it might feel like right now. I'm sure you can PM any of us if you'd like to chat more about it in private.
I feel this is one of the most important threads ever posted on UKC.
It reminds us we may participate in what some might call an extreme sport, however we are a community made up of all sorts of people from all walks of life with all sorts of troubles and joys. It's great folks are sharing positive and fun stuff on UKC, helping to keep their fellow caver entertained - good on you and please keep it up, helps to get us all through this. It's also positive that folks feel they can reach out and talk about their troubles so others realise they are not alone in feeling down or sad or struggling.
Bravery is not just about abseiling big pitches, diving sumps or getting through tight squeezes - it's also about reaching out when you feel down (and so many people are, these are extraordinary times, no wonder people are finding it tough).
As has been said before, give someone you know a call, check they are OK; be kind to yourself and others. We'll get through this rotten time.. Love to you all, Pegasus xxx
It reminds us we may participate in what some might call an extreme sport, however we are a community made up of all sorts of people from all walks of life with all sorts of troubles and joys. It's great folks are sharing positive and fun stuff on UKC, helping to keep their fellow caver entertained - good on you and please keep it up, helps to get us all through this. It's also positive that folks feel they can reach out and talk about their troubles so others realise they are not alone in feeling down or sad or struggling.
Bravery is not just about abseiling big pitches, diving sumps or getting through tight squeezes - it's also about reaching out when you feel down (and so many people are, these are extraordinary times, no wonder people are finding it tough).
As has been said before, give someone you know a call, check they are OK; be kind to yourself and others. We'll get through this rotten time.. Love to you all, Pegasus xxx
pwhole
Well-known member
aricooperdavis said:
Can you shed any more light on that? I don't want to come across as facetious as I'm not, but I'm a bit concerned that a ten-minute chat and a prescription is adequate treatment for depression. It sounds rather casual to me, which I'm sure it isn't, but I'd just like to know a bit more about the prescription aspect - I have known this to go on for decades with some people, and often people have stayed on meds far longer than was necessary, or healthy. If you'd rather not, PM me instead, but it is something I'm intrigued about.
aricooperdavis
Moderator
pwhole said:
This is something that I've been thinking about for a while, and I had gone to some length to understand my situation and the options available to me. I have been engaging with an online CBT-like platform provided by my work for some time and took a self assessment PHQ-9 before the call. Ideally I would like a talking therapy, but knew that this is unlikely to happen any time soon (high demand and relentless underfunding), so proposed a one-off prescription for a low dose of sertraline to be reviewed every 28 days (this drug can take some time to be effective) whilst I wait. I'd even checked the NIC for the drug to stop me feeling guilty about being a burden on the taxpayer (my prescription charge is about 10x the cost of the drug). My experience is that I will be much more able to manage my situation independently when I am back at work and less insular, so I will also not ask my GP to renew my prescription after this. I basically communicated this to my GP who asked me lots of questions about my situation and my understanding of my plan, after which he agreed that it was the right way forward. I hope that alleviates any concern that my GP has been hasty.
I did a lot of the legwork here, because I'm a control freak like that, but for others considering reaching out to their GP for help, it doesn't have to be that way - they're incredibly talented people who have huge amounts of experience helping patients make informed decisions about their treatment. Arranging an appointment with them is the last step you'll have to take without their help and guidance.
PeteHall
Moderator
pwhole said:
In total agreement here.
While I'm sure medication can be really helpful in some cases, particularly to break a downhill cycle, I worry that it does not address the route cause of the problem.
People can easily become dependent on such medications, where perhaps if the cause was addressed, the symptom would fix itself, rather than simply treating the symptom. Speaking as someone with no medical expertise, I would hope that a medical professional would treat medication as a last resort, rather than a go-to quick fix, but perhaps I'm over-simplifying things.
I think this is key, though I would add that while work is a good distraction to prevent developing or dwelling on negative thoughts, other face to face contact or activities to focus on are possibly even more effective.aricooperdavis said:
One of the great things about caving is that it provides complete escapism; it is impossible to focus on anything else once you are underground. For me at least, all other problems melt away and I am entirely absorbed in the here and now of the cave. On exiting the cave, I no longer need to focus on the cave, but my mind is refreshed and I am still in cave mood for several days.
I've not been underground since before Christmas (save for wandering into the entrance of a cave on my New Year's day walk with the family), so really looking forward to my dose of underground medication tonight
AR
Well-known member
Sertraline's the one I got prescribed when I was at my lowest; I had initially been wary of taking anti-depressants because I didn't want to end up stuck on them (like an ex-girlfriend of mine) and did voice that concern to the doctor but they did explain what it was (a serotonin booster) and like Ari, kept it on review with an eye to stopping it as soon as I felt capable . Once I'd got away from the main cause of my depression ( the job I was in at the time) and secured a new job, I agreed with the doctor to start slowly winding it down and fully came off it about nine months after I started.
Paul Greenfield
New member
There are some wonderful people posting on this thread - Thank you.
But please beware with some of your advice.
I have had mental health issues for many years.
The perceived wisdom is always to `tell people what you are suffering.`
In my experience this can often backfire and the subsequent rejection only adds to the depression.
Determination, keeping busy and showing a positive face; has worked so far.
The real problem with lockdown has been a lack of opportunities to keep occupied, which can lead to a serious downhill spiral.
Reading all these comments really helps.
But please beware with some of your advice.
I have had mental health issues for many years.
The perceived wisdom is always to `tell people what you are suffering.`
In my experience this can often backfire and the subsequent rejection only adds to the depression.
Determination, keeping busy and showing a positive face; has worked so far.
The real problem with lockdown has been a lack of opportunities to keep occupied, which can lead to a serious downhill spiral.
Reading all these comments really helps.
kay
Well-known member
Gerbil007 said:
Not constant. But for long periods it has been the first thing in my mind when I wake. If you haven't already, I'd advise you to speak to your GP. Don't dismiss antidepressants out of hand - they can lift your mood enough for you to be able to start the climb out of the hole.
I keep telling yourself that what I am feeling is my depression talking. It's not real life. I find recognising that helps a lot. Difficult though, because I feel I am seeing things clearly and objectively - it's only when I talk to friends that I find my view of the world is a distorted one, and then when a gloomy thought intrudes I can push it aside.
pwhole
Well-known member
Ari - thanks for the clarity - and the honesty. I agree that treating this as a temporary situation from the outset is key - management of these issues with medication has come on a long way, and it's clear that the system has improved since the experiences of people I knew. Also as branded meds come off patent it gets a lot clearer to see the problem without the obvious conflicts of interest that can arise where costs far outweigh prescription charges, as they did with Prozac initially.
I remember a friend of mine who worked in a psychiatric unit in the mid-90s telling me (then) that there were around 50,000 adults on Prozac prescriptions in Sheffield, on a minimum six-week course, at a cost of ?1.08 per capsule per day, so a minimum per person of ?45.36 - times 50,000. Obviously no-one ever did a minimum of six weeks, and it was usually measured in years, with often no way off, if the symptoms were likely to return (or were perceived to be likely to return, either by the patient or their GP). Once it became generic, obviously there's a huge saving - but then it obviously becomes a cheap solution too, so not necessarily easier to withdraw treatment if it's in the paracetamol price range.
So I think the key factor is the patient's intent, and a willingness to see this as a way out of the problem, rather than the way forward with the problem
I remember a friend of mine who worked in a psychiatric unit in the mid-90s telling me (then) that there were around 50,000 adults on Prozac prescriptions in Sheffield, on a minimum six-week course, at a cost of ?1.08 per capsule per day, so a minimum per person of ?45.36 - times 50,000. Obviously no-one ever did a minimum of six weeks, and it was usually measured in years, with often no way off, if the symptoms were likely to return (or were perceived to be likely to return, either by the patient or their GP). Once it became generic, obviously there's a huge saving - but then it obviously becomes a cheap solution too, so not necessarily easier to withdraw treatment if it's in the paracetamol price range.
So I think the key factor is the patient's intent, and a willingness to see this as a way out of the problem, rather than the way forward with the problem
Brains
Well-known member
I can relate to most of the thoughts on this thread, and have experienced the really negative downsides in the past and with loved ones.
Suicide in my opinion (and others?) doesnt make the misery end - it shares out amongst everyone you know, the closer they are, the more they get... There are so many things you havent seen or done yet - caves, climbs, beers, steaks, swims... whatever!
GP's are a good first contact for professional help, but bear in mind treatments can take a long time to kick in, and medications may need tailoring to you. 28 days may not even scratch the surface. 3 months is typical for a proper clinical effect to take hold, and coming off should be done under advice as well - not a sudden cessation but a gradual weening off.
Specifically for those with an immediate urge to harm themselves, try a cold thermal shock - stand in a bowl of cold water, hands under the cold tap, stand outside in a T shirt in winter until you are chilled. I dont know why but this seems to reset your mood for a while. Getting outside - walking, cycling, whatever, also helps...
Reaching out here can be of benefit as many use pseudonyms, so a negative feedback in the real world is not possible.
Suicide in my opinion (and others?) doesnt make the misery end - it shares out amongst everyone you know, the closer they are, the more they get... There are so many things you havent seen or done yet - caves, climbs, beers, steaks, swims... whatever!
GP's are a good first contact for professional help, but bear in mind treatments can take a long time to kick in, and medications may need tailoring to you. 28 days may not even scratch the surface. 3 months is typical for a proper clinical effect to take hold, and coming off should be done under advice as well - not a sudden cessation but a gradual weening off.
Specifically for those with an immediate urge to harm themselves, try a cold thermal shock - stand in a bowl of cold water, hands under the cold tap, stand outside in a T shirt in winter until you are chilled. I dont know why but this seems to reset your mood for a while. Getting outside - walking, cycling, whatever, also helps...
Reaching out here can be of benefit as many use pseudonyms, so a negative feedback in the real world is not possible.
menacer
Well-known member
It's been a great year for all the Covid Nazis brow beating and berating those of us that aren't built to be locked down
After 6 months of relentless state and peer propoganda telling me I'm a hateful character that's killing granny ( despite killing no one)
I've found the best thing for my mental health was to unplug from social media, unplug from the msm.
Even these forums are a haven for keyboard Nazis
The type of people who claim to be caring and compassionate folk, right up until the point you have a different opinion to them
Ive only seen this thread because Chris told me about it.
One of our dear, like minded friends has posted.
Well I'm posting in support bud.
This is a shit show.
Unplug, do you're own thing..
Don't give a damn about the keyboard warriors of the world.
If you can work safely then you can live your life safely and I frankly don't give a damn what any one else says.
Don't post on social media, don't let any one know what you're doing, just do it.
The ones dismayed about what is happening in this once free and beautiful country are the sane ones.
In this together, my arse. :ras:
After 6 months of relentless state and peer propoganda telling me I'm a hateful character that's killing granny ( despite killing no one)
I've found the best thing for my mental health was to unplug from social media, unplug from the msm.
Even these forums are a haven for keyboard Nazis
The type of people who claim to be caring and compassionate folk, right up until the point you have a different opinion to them
Ive only seen this thread because Chris told me about it.
One of our dear, like minded friends has posted.
Well I'm posting in support bud.
This is a shit show.
Unplug, do you're own thing..
Don't give a damn about the keyboard warriors of the world.
If you can work safely then you can live your life safely and I frankly don't give a damn what any one else says.
Don't post on social media, don't let any one know what you're doing, just do it.
The ones dismayed about what is happening in this once free and beautiful country are the sane ones.
In this together, my arse. :ras:
Wolfo
Member
Well, I don't know about depression,
but if you take the "black dog" not too metaphoric...
As a caver from the autistic side (AS) of human genetic production error I know well about being "the weirdo".
Sadly it's not about knowing entire books by heart or whatelse some TV-series may suggest about autism, it's more about beeing pretty solid in fucking up a lot of human interaction (constantly annoying people, don't get emotions right etc. pp.).
Got me many years to understand that I never will get good in this, so focussed more on stuff I'm good in. It works.
Better a useful bugger than just a bugger.
Also people get more tolerable on their normal-o-meter (or o-yard, for the fans of imperial units) if you have some same interests and skills.
From my experience the caving community is pretty open and friendly to people on the more eccentric side - but I guess you need to be yourself a bit of mad to find fun in crawing through tight, wet and cold squeezes.
About being open about stuff like this. I could not recommend from my experience.
Better be an idiot than an fucked up idiot.
but if you take the "black dog" not too metaphoric...
As a caver from the autistic side (AS) of human genetic production error I know well about being "the weirdo".
Sadly it's not about knowing entire books by heart or whatelse some TV-series may suggest about autism, it's more about beeing pretty solid in fucking up a lot of human interaction (constantly annoying people, don't get emotions right etc. pp.).
Got me many years to understand that I never will get good in this, so focussed more on stuff I'm good in. It works.
Better a useful bugger than just a bugger.
Also people get more tolerable on their normal-o-meter (or o-yard, for the fans of imperial units) if you have some same interests and skills.
From my experience the caving community is pretty open and friendly to people on the more eccentric side - but I guess you need to be yourself a bit of mad to find fun in crawing through tight, wet and cold squeezes.
About being open about stuff like this. I could not recommend from my experience.
Better be an idiot than an fucked up idiot.
JAA
Well-known member
I haven?t read the whole thread but yes very much so.
Not particularly Covid related but the isolation has certainly emphasised the pre existing loneliness and the realisation that realistically I count for nothing at all to the only people I ever wanted to mean something.
A cocktail of antidepressants, SAD lamp thing, counselling, and yet I still wake up in tears each morning, put on a brave face for my watch again work, laugh and joke, then get home, look at photographs of just this summer when I was happy, and wonder how long I can keep this act up for.
So anyone else feeling similar has my sympathy. It?s a fight with a mind that wants to kill you until one day you give up because it doesn?t really matter anymore.
Cheery little monkey aren?t I!
For the ?I?ll do whatever I want/civil liberties flag wavers, I?ve done this whole pandemic in the emergency services. I?ve moved bodies of covid patients, seen the mortuaries, and broken colleagues. I?d say to you, you are not the only
Ones struggling, but lots of people have it much worse than not being able to go caving. So if that?s your biggest worry, you can politely get a f**king grip.
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