Top entrance
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Tony_B
Member
Thanks to some hard work by the usual suspects at SWCC, the Top Entrance gate is now fully functional again. It had been rendered unusable by an attempt to gain entry (unsuccessful) using force. Any information gratefully received; this follows a recent similar incident at Cwm Dwr.
As ever keep your eyes open - if you are at Penwyllt or on the OFD reserve and see anything suspicious please don't hesitate to call the police or, at the very least, inform an SWCC local.
As ever keep your eyes open - if you are at Penwyllt or on the OFD reserve and see anything suspicious please don't hesitate to call the police or, at the very least, inform an SWCC local.
Alex,
As I am sure Tony_B will be happy to confirm, the key is only "readily available at the hut" if you belong to a club with either an annual permit or a permit for a specific date. Worth bearing in mind if you are going to make assumptions as to whether or not cavers might have been responsible for the damage caused.
As I am sure Tony_B will be happy to confirm, the key is only "readily available at the hut" if you belong to a club with either an annual permit or a permit for a specific date. Worth bearing in mind if you are going to make assumptions as to whether or not cavers might have been responsible for the damage caused.
Depends who you call a caver I guess! And have you forgotten about recent-ish events in South Wales, Draenen entrance troubles and that new find (can't recall name off top of my head) where access was completely lost? Cavers are more than capable of causing damage..Alkapton said:
Alkapton said:
Only for cavers who choose to belong to a recognised caving club and follow the proper procedure to secure access.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Alex has his and I have mine. Until some solid evidence is unearthed it will all be supposition anyway. However, I think it is important not to take the easy way out and believe what you want to believe for the sake of expediency.
Personally, speaking as someone who has experience of teaching many of the local kids in years gone by, I will be surprised if they are indeed the ones responsible but I am prepared to be proven wrong.
I reckon I would call anyone who explores a cave a caver, wouldn't you?dunc said:
So if someone has attempted to gain entry to a cave I think it is reasonable to assume that they wished to do so in order to explore it, don't you?Tony_B said:
Hence I think it is safe to say that the damage may well have been caused by someone wanting to go caving (i.e.cavers), regardless of their age or where they might live. Most likely people who are unaware of the correct procedure to follow to obtain access or who disagree with it, possibly because they regard it as elitist.
I do agree that it is surprising that this should happen at a cave where the access arrangements have been in place for a considerable time and appear to meet with the approval of the vast majority of cavers.
However, the bottom line is that as soon as you put a gate on any cave you run the risk of that gate being damaged or removed at some future date. Just ask John Parker how many times he had to replace the lock or the gate at Craig-ar-Ffynnon over the years!
It would be nice to think that these recent events in the Swansea Valley might encourage those who are in favour of restrictive access to caves in South Wales to re-examine their standpoint, certainly in an attempt to prevent something similar happening again.
Here is my solution:
Fit the same lock (openable with the same key) on ALL the gated caves in South Wales.
Make the key readily available to ALL cavers (not just those who choose to belong to clubs).
Alex
Well-known member
Don't know what the big thing against clubs is, just form one make up a random or copy and paste consitituion and bang you have easy legit access to all the caves and you can still play by your rules. That was what the BRCC and other clubs have done, though the BRCC has grown for the better since then. Just gotta fork out that ?16 a year. (I think that is what it is)
But maybe they should be relaxed a bit, but I doubt that would stop damage as there is bound to be still someone still unhappy. if gates are removed all together, well who knows. We get by in Yorkshire Dales okay without them but as someone no doubt will point out we are a different region.
But maybe they should be relaxed a bit, but I doubt that would stop damage as there is bound to be still someone still unhappy. if gates are removed all together, well who knows. We get by in Yorkshire Dales okay without them but as someone no doubt will point out we are a different region.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Alex said:
If memory serves the procedures for acceptability as a BCA member club have been tightened up a bit and isn't that simplistic any longer.
Pete Brookdale
New member
lol NigR know the true story!
Alex said:
Haven't got anything against clubs, in fact I belong to two (SWCC and GOG), both of which are properly constituted and belong to Cambrian Caving Council. Personally, I have no problems regarding access to most of the major caves in South Wales and can go down almost any cave whenever I want with the minimum of hassle.
However, not everyone is so fortunate and I think that is wrong (and bad for cave exploration in South Wales). The fact remains that unless you join a club you just cannot get access (legitimately) to the major Welsh systems as things stand. Not everybody wants to go to the considerable effort (and expense) involved in joining a major club, some people just find it difficult on a social level. Believe me, there are a lot more non-club cavers (at least here in Wales) than most people think - I know this because quite a few of them have ended up joining the Garimpeiros! Major problem is that most just end up giving up caving and go on to do other things which are more readily accessible (e.g. Climbing, Surfing, Walking etc.)
Pete Brookdale said:
No, Pete - wish I did, then I could ask them why they did it! Everything I'm saying is still supposition but, having thought long and hard about it, I think it is far more likely than the 'local kids' theory. Who knows, maybe it was a passing walker who just happened to have a lump hammer and crowbar in his rucsac?
cavemancolumbus
New member
Like Alex I don't understand why people are anti club, so I think OFD access is fine at weekends (and mega cheers to everyone involved in buying 1 and scrapping the leadership system) but I also find midweek access an elitist pain in the arse. I know various Penwylt locals have a key, but is the list with numbers commonly available? I had a google a couple of weeks ago and couldn't find anything, i've had people phone me from the cottages asking if I've got any useful numbers, so I'm not the only one.
Given that the are some really friendly pubs nearby I don't understand why the key cant be kept behind the bar, rather than the locals being disturbed every time anyone wants a midweek trip.
Oli
Given that the are some really friendly pubs nearby I don't understand why the key cant be kept behind the bar, rather than the locals being disturbed every time anyone wants a midweek trip.
Oli
On this note, is there anyone willing to lead an OFD 1 round trip on the weekend of the 27th of this month, i know the leader system is no longer needed but i must confess that my memory of the way is sketchy at best. would be a 1st/2nd trip for three people. any help would be hugely appreciated.
