Wind turbines causing rain? [Split from Mossdale.]

[PeteHall]

Little or nothing in science can be proved.

True enough, however we can get close enough to "proof" by

many observations and experiments over centuries and has always been found to be true (within the ever-tightening limits of experimental error)

The same cannot be said of climate science, which is a relatively young discipline of great complexity and many variables, with predictions made using computer modelling based on numerous assumptions. No two models give the same answers and so far as I'm aware, most models struggle to accurately recreate historical climatic changes. This strikes me as a long way shy of proof and as such, we should keep an open mind, while acting on the best available information in the meantime.

 

[Andy Farrant]

Very cool, and easily explainable via that graph.
View attachment 20703
Science is cool innit. 🤣👍

However I can't help but think that is almost entirely academic, especially in this country, as we rarely have fully saturated streams, let alone two coming together in that state. Right?

More believable then to be due to increased turbulence, right?

Mixing dissolution is likely to occur, not so much in cave streams, but in porous rocks or in fractures. One example is in the Chalk or other porous limestones such as the Jurassic oolites where groundwater from different sources may meet along a certain horizon (eg sheet flint, marl seam, mudstone bed) and enable dissolution to occur. This can take place deep within the phreatic zone over long periods of time.

 

[tony from suffolk]

Science is about looking at what available evidence points to. It is hardly ever as black and white as "proving" or "disproving" a hypothesis.

Presumably those best placed to judge how strongly evidence points to a hypothesis being correct or not are scientists (unless we've had enough of experts...). It's not hard to find lists of national/international scientific organisations that see the evidence very much pointing at global warming/climate change being caused by human activity. E.g. there are 198 listed here.

It's not incorrect to take a different viewpoint, but to be taken seriously a different viewpoint needs to be backed up by some serious evidence.

I think one useful perspective in all this is that the most economically favourable situation would be to establish that climate change has nothing to do with the hundreds/thousands of gigatons of carbon that humans have stuck into our atmosphere over the last 70 odd years. The financial rewards for demonstrating it would be unreal, yet scientific consensus is almost entirely at odds with this.

Can't remember who came up with this, but I thought it was rather appropriate - “Plot idea: 97% of the world's scientists contrive an environmental crisis, but are exposed by a plucky band of billionaires and oil companies.”

 

[Flotsam]

Can't remember who came up with this, but I thought it was rather appropriate - “Plot idea: 97% of the world's scientists contrive an environmental crisis, but are exposed by a plucky band of billionaires and oil companies.”

The problem with "experts" those that are put forward as being so, is that many of them are not "experts at all or have an agenda. Greta Thunberg? If the sceptics had decided to conduct a PR campaign with a totally unqualified young girl they would have been laughed off the face of the planet. She is only promoting what she is being told by older people who really ought to know better. Saint David Attenborough?

There is a tendency toward conformity in science, easy to promote papers that keep the AGW agenda going, hard or impossible if not. There is lots of money for pro AGW research and none for any other view.

Lets face it, AGW is a godsend to Governments who can use it to tax and control their populations. I think you will find that most Billionaires, Oil and other large companies are delighted to play along with a theory that makes their products more expensive as well as opening up new services and products. Carbon trading? The biggest con ever.

 

[langcliffe]

The problem with "experts" those that are put forward as being so, is that many of them are not "experts at all or have an agenda. Greta Thunberg? If the sceptics had decided to conduct a PR campaign with a totally unqualified young girl they would have been laughed off the face of the planet.

I think that Thunberg would be classed as an activist, rather an expert. Having said that, she is a remarkably well-read young lady, and better informed than Nigel Lawson who represented the sceptics on the Today Program.

 

[Flotsam]

I think that Thunberg would be classed as an activist, rather an expert. Having said that, she is a remarkably well-read young lady, and better informed than Nigel Lawson who represented the sceptics on the Today Program.

It depends om what you read

 

[tony from suffolk]

It depends om what you read

Oh indeed! The oil companies have done an excellent job pushing their propaganda, but given the unfeasibly large funds at their disposal, it's no surprise. Those minimal numbers of "Scientists" who've chosen to support the idea that man-made climate destruction is not a thing? Always interesting to look at their sponsors, or their social media presence which tends to plead for funds to "support my important work...". No mileage in going along with the vast majority of their colleagues when you're after a few bob. Sponsors of climate change conferences? Yep, the oil companies have sure been hard at it.

 

[Flotsam]

T

I think that Thunberg would be classed as an activist, rather an expert. Having said that, she is a remarkably well-read young lady, and better informed than Nigel Lawson who represented the sceptics on the Today Program.

Thunberg was manipulated into being a Green activist as a very young girl by her activist parents. As she suffers from Autism or Asperger's it's abuse really, it made the task relatively easy.

 

[hannahb]

One doesn't "suffer" from Autism or Asperger's, and to suggest that someone with autism is a pushover and has no capacity to make their own decisions or reach their own conclusions is incorrect and incredibly insulting.

 

[Flotsam]

One doesn't "suffer" from Autism or Asperger's, and to suggest that someone with autism is a pushover and has no capacity to make their own decisions or reach their own conclusions is incorrect and incredibly insulting.

She was a young child manipulated by her parents. Manipulating a young child with a mental condition such as hers would be relatively easy. As for using the word "suffer", am I to understand that having Autism or Asperger's is one of life's advantages?
The situation with the Green movement and Saint Thunberg is utterly ludicrous and sickening.

 

[hannahb]

I shouldn't have taken the bait

 

[tony from suffolk]

One doesn't "suffer" from Autism or Asperger's, and to suggest that someone with autism is a pushover and has no capacity to make their own decisions or reach their own conclusions is incorrect and incredibly insulting.

Indeed, and the huge volume of vitriol & hatred directed at Ms. Thunberg by the oil company stooges is testament enough to how effective she's been in promoting the effects of the disastrous climate change. Witnessing so many grown men getting in a froth about a young girl who shrugs off their insults is quite revealing.

 

[ChrisB]

Thunberg was manipulated into being a Green activist as a very young girl by her activist parents. As she suffers from Autism or Asperger's it's abuse really, it made the task relatively easy.

A senior member of my caving club commented that all cavers are probably somewhere on the spectrum, I'm fairly sure I am. So feel free to ignore my posts on that basis.

 

[Lankyman]

They'll be telling us next that Joe Biden doesn't use space lasers to control hurricanes!

 

[Samouse1]

T

Thunberg was manipulated into being a Green activist as a very young girl by her activist parents. As she suffers from Autism or Asperger's it's abuse really, it made the task relatively easy.

A person raised with an appreciation for nature and awareness of the problems facing it grows up to want to fight for its continued survival, shock horror. I was raised by a caver and have become a passionate caver. Its almost as if we’re influenced by the world around us as children, wherever we fall on the spectrum

 

[Rhys]

I shouldn't have taken the bait

Yeah. I'd recommend not feeding that troll. They've really gone down a rabbit hole now.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

...... survival, shock horror. I was raised by a caver and have become... ...

For some reason my overactive (and childish) imagination is associating "raised by a caver" like "raised by wolves" or something.

I've a mental image of you as a small child sitting in semi darkness in a cave, gnawing on a large femur. Hopefully this isn't an accurate description of your childhood 😁

 

[JoshW]

One doesn't "suffer" from Autism or Asperger's, and to suggest that someone with autism is a pushover and has no capacity to make their own decisions or reach their own conclusions is incorrect and incredibly insulting.

Thank you Hannah! I was going to post something in line with this.

Also as a little side point, generally lots are moving away from the naming of Asperger’s due to the history of the man himself.

 

[hannahb]

Thank you Hannah! I was going to post something in line with this.

Also as a little side point, generally lots are moving away from the naming of Asperger’s due to the history of the man himself.

I didn't want to dilute my message

 

[andrewmcleod]

There is an arrogance in trying to argue that an entire field of research is wrong without years of study in that field...