Y-hang

[Cantclimbtom]

Never mind the knot, where can I get those anchors you just stick on to the wall wherever you want them? 😃

Maybe you don't have them in your caving region? they only work on magnetic limestone

 

[mikem]

Is that like magnesian?

 

[Babyhagrid]

Could help for rigging on steel scaffolding?? 😉

 

[ChrisB]

He did also show me a BoB with an extra turn. Which he claimed did not slip on tests.

surely a bowline on the bight with an extra turn is just a fusion knot 🤔

No. Fushion you start with a fig 8 on a bight.
This extra turn makes the knot like a normal BoB. I would have to show you.

The extra turn is in the same direction, like a Capuchin, rather than the opposite direction like a figure 8. Pete Knight calls the knot a Double Bowline on the Bight, see

Double Bowline on the Bight – How to tie – Pete Knight's Blog

www.peakinstruction.com

 

[Tim Pickering]

I had no idea what it meant... until.... I watched this

then it made sense

Ah-ha! I've been (quite literally) tying myself up in knots trying to work out how to tie a fusion knot based on the info on this thread. Brilliant video (with the sound muted!).

 

[Fulk]

Here's a question for JoshW: Way back in this thread you mentioned the use of a 'king crab'. I assume that this is a karabiner clipped into both loops of the knot and left there for everyone to clip their safety cord into?
Also, I was under the impression that 'bunny (ear) knot' was a generic term for any knot that provided you with two loops, whether it be a figure-8-in-the-bight, bowline-in-the-bight, Karash knot, but here it seems to be being used specifically for the figure-8-in-the-bight; is that so?

 

[ChrisB]

My understanding of 'bunny ears' is a double loop knot tied as follows:

- make a figure 8 on the bight with the loop about twice the length of the arm of the Y
- feed the end of the loop back through the knot at the same point it emerges; don't pull it through, leave the double loop
- invert the end over the double loop to secure it

Figure 8 Double Loop

Also known as "Bunny Ears", it is a stable double loop in the middle of a piece of rope and is based on the simple Figure 8 knot.

www.animatedknots.com

 

[JoshW]

Here's a question for JoshW: Way back in this thread you mentioned the use of a 'king crab'. I assume that this is a karabiner clipped into both loops of the knot and left there for everyone to clip their safety cord into?

Yup, that’s spot on. Big boy HMS is ideal for the job 💪🏼

 

[topcat]

Also know as a comfort krab.

 

[Fulk]

But not a big aquatic crustacean.

 

[mikem]

Bowline & Karash would be more like mouse ears (rounder)...

 

[badger]

If someone said bunny ears to me, I would think fig 8 scenario. Never heard of anyone calling a BoB a bunny ears knot. Likewise I have never heard anyone calling a fushion knot anything other than a fushion knot.

 

[mikem]

I've never heard a fusion knot called that...

 

[Fulk]

I understand that the 'fusion knot' was first invented by an American fireman called Karash – hence the name (although according to Wikipedia he 're-invented' the knot and popularized it in the States).

 

[mikem]

Hence the con-fushion!

 

[cap n chris]

Isn't the underpinning rationale behind a y-hang the 53/100ths loading on each anchor presuming a 45 degree separation, harking back the glorious halcyon days of self-drilling bolts which alarmingly had a habit of popping out far too regularly and therefore sharing the loading with y-hang rigging minimised the pop-outs and the resultant equalisation shock loadings?

If so, in an age of bomb-proof resined anchors et al, do y-hangs still have relevancy? Discuss. Include illustrations and your maths to support your case.

 

[Babyhagrid]

Y hangs do lead to much nicer hangs on quite a few pitches. Eg getting the rope away from the rock.

 

[mikem]

& whilst the anchor may be solid, the rock it's set in might not...

 

[langcliffe]

Isn't the underpinning rationale behind a y-hang the 53/100ths loading on each anchor presuming a 45 degree separation, harking back the glorious halcyon days of self-drilling bolts which alarmingly had a habit of popping out far too regularly and therefore sharing the loading with y-hang rigging minimised the pop-outs and the resultant equalisation shock loadings?

If so, in an age of bomb-proof resined anchors et al, do y-hangs still have relevancy? Discuss. Include illustrations and your maths to support your case.

I have known the rock with a single hang fail on the last pitch in Little Hull Pot. Admittedly, a Y-hang probably wouldn't have helped in that case - a huge section of wall peeled away.

 

[JoshW]

Y hangs also provide equalised redundancy, not necessarily for reducing the load on each bolt.

redundancy in case of failed rock, bolt, carabiner/maillon or rope.

Of course as @Babyhagrid says a freehanging SRT line is almost always nicer than one rubbing against a rock