Samouse1
Well-known member
I’ve recently read through a couple of older publications about the caves in Yorkshire, the first being “A tour of the caves in the environs of Ingleborough and Settle" By John Hutton, published in 1780. The second was "Cave Hunting" By William Boyd Dawkins (who was a mate of John Birkbeck), published in 1874. I managed to find both online, well worth a read!
Lost caves
In Mr Huttons book, a few caves are noted by name that I didn't recognise.
On the one hand, you have Hardraw-kin, and Meir gill, both obvious, and a mildly amusing Gaper-gil, my new preferred way of referring to it!
The question arises with a few of the others. Johnson's Jacket Hole, Blackside cave, Sir Williams cave, and Atkinsons chamber, all seem to have disappeared from the record?
I've found a reference from the Gentlemans magazine (1761 https://www.lakesguides.co.uk/html/lgaz/lk06132.htm) which says "there is likewise another swallow, or hole, called Johnson's Jacket-hole,a place resembling a funnel in shape, but vastly deep; a stone being thrown into it, makes a rumbling noise, and may be heard a considerable time" and puts it somewhere near one of the Long Kins "There is likewise, partly south-east, a small rivulet, which falls into a place considerably deep, called Long-Kin".
The other three are currently elusive, with no other references (that I've found yet). Anyone have any ideas where these might be?
Cave name changes
As seen above, names change over time, and I noted the below in Mr Huttons Book.
Penegent, Hulpit and Huntpit are all obious locations, and it's interesting to see them change over time.
The strange part was when I got to Mr Boyd Dawkins book. He writes about a pioneering trip down "Helln Pot", being lowered alongside Mr Birkbeck down what is known to all of the rest of us as Alum Pot! There are included some sketches of the pot.
He notes at the bottom that his "Helln pot" is "wrongly" referred to as Alum on the OS map. I've searched for other references to it being called Helln Pot, and have found a few YRC and CPC records referring to it as Helln. These were all published after the book, and could therefore be referencing the book as the source of this name. A RRCPC website (http://www.rrcpc.org.uk/newsletters/NL_V47_N2_A1.htm) states that "Even the older documents such as the 1822 map of Borrens and North Cote and the 1791 Selside Enclosure map call it Allum Pot, which is no different." Even Mr Hutton calls it Alum. So where did Mr Dawkins get Helln from?
He claims that the Angles called it this, meaning "The entrance to hell" but according to a trusted student (also a caver) of ASNC studies at Cambridge "He is making up Bollocks about the Angles because of imperialism" which was a common occurrence among Victorian scholars. Since this is the earliest record of it being called Helln, and older sources call it Alum, I'm inclined to believe he is indeed making up bollocks, and there isn't some great conspiracy to cover up the real name (and the entrance to hell). Unless anyone else has any evidence to the contrary?
Thank you for reading my rambling thoughts on some very old books. I now feel like the subject of this anecdote on Yordas from Mr Hutton's book.
Lost caves
In Mr Huttons book, a few caves are noted by name that I didn't recognise.
On the one hand, you have Hardraw-kin, and Meir gill, both obvious, and a mildly amusing Gaper-gil, my new preferred way of referring to it!
The question arises with a few of the others. Johnson's Jacket Hole, Blackside cave, Sir Williams cave, and Atkinsons chamber, all seem to have disappeared from the record?
I've found a reference from the Gentlemans magazine (1761 https://www.lakesguides.co.uk/html/lgaz/lk06132.htm) which says "there is likewise another swallow, or hole, called Johnson's Jacket-hole,a place resembling a funnel in shape, but vastly deep; a stone being thrown into it, makes a rumbling noise, and may be heard a considerable time" and puts it somewhere near one of the Long Kins "There is likewise, partly south-east, a small rivulet, which falls into a place considerably deep, called Long-Kin".
The other three are currently elusive, with no other references (that I've found yet). Anyone have any ideas where these might be?
Cave name changes
As seen above, names change over time, and I noted the below in Mr Huttons Book.
Penegent, Hulpit and Huntpit are all obious locations, and it's interesting to see them change over time.
The strange part was when I got to Mr Boyd Dawkins book. He writes about a pioneering trip down "Helln Pot", being lowered alongside Mr Birkbeck down what is known to all of the rest of us as Alum Pot! There are included some sketches of the pot.
He notes at the bottom that his "Helln pot" is "wrongly" referred to as Alum on the OS map. I've searched for other references to it being called Helln Pot, and have found a few YRC and CPC records referring to it as Helln. These were all published after the book, and could therefore be referencing the book as the source of this name. A RRCPC website (http://www.rrcpc.org.uk/newsletters/NL_V47_N2_A1.htm) states that "Even the older documents such as the 1822 map of Borrens and North Cote and the 1791 Selside Enclosure map call it Allum Pot, which is no different." Even Mr Hutton calls it Alum. So where did Mr Dawkins get Helln from?
He claims that the Angles called it this, meaning "The entrance to hell" but according to a trusted student (also a caver) of ASNC studies at Cambridge "He is making up Bollocks about the Angles because of imperialism" which was a common occurrence among Victorian scholars. Since this is the earliest record of it being called Helln, and older sources call it Alum, I'm inclined to believe he is indeed making up bollocks, and there isn't some great conspiracy to cover up the real name (and the entrance to hell). Unless anyone else has any evidence to the contrary?
Thank you for reading my rambling thoughts on some very old books. I now feel like the subject of this anecdote on Yordas from Mr Hutton's book.
