Author Topic: Old carabiner  (Read 1698 times)

Offline Judi Durber

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Old carabiner
« on: June 17, 2021, 09:18:42 pm »
Thought people might be interested.  The gate failed so I have used it on my plastic washing line in the garden for a few (I think 3) years. 

We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life waiting for us.

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Old carabiner
« on: June 17, 2021, 09:18:42 pm »
Warmbac

Offline Fulk

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2021, 11:53:13 pm »
Your point being? That it's got f***** up by being left out in the open for a few years? Not being sarcastic (honestly), just inquisitive.

Online Brains

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2021, 09:16:13 am »
Do you live somewhere with a severe pollution problem?

Offline ttxela2

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2021, 09:21:34 am »
Surprising if that's just 3 years, I'm thinking of various bits of aluminium on my car and van that are regularly exposed to wet conditions, road salt etc and are 20-30 years old  :shrug:

Offline ALEXW

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2021, 09:29:03 am »
Was it fastened to a metal hook, that looks like Galvanic corrosion..

Offline zzzzzzed

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2021, 09:31:19 am »
Those look like Clog crabs.  Didn't they go bust in 1986?   That makes them 35 years old at a minimum.

Online mikem

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2021, 09:46:02 am »
Wild Country bought the brand (don't think original Clog had coloured gates):
https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/gear/clog_equipment-633427

Offline Judi Durber

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2021, 10:48:35 am »
Your point being? That it's got f***** up by being left out in the open for a few years? Not being sarcastic (honestly), just inquisitive.

I have just found it interesting as to how it splits when it degrades.  I have not had the chance to see that before, hence the post, to show others.

It could be very old, I used it as a hook on a plastic line to hang the peg bag, also plastic.  It was left out though, all the time.
We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life waiting for us.

Offline Fulk

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2021, 11:11:07 am »
Thanks Judi; I realize that when people say ‘Your point being’, they’re generally being sarcastic or offensive or patronizing, so I’m sorry I phrased my remark rather badly.

Offline andrewmc

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2021, 12:11:31 pm »
Surprising if that's just 3 years, I'm thinking of various bits of aluminium on my car and van that are regularly exposed to wet conditions, road salt etc and are 20-30 years old  :shrug:

The alloys of aluminium used in carabiners are less corrosion-resistant than most aluminium alloys, due primarily to copper.
https://dmmclimbing.com/Knowledge/August-2011/Anodising

Offline phizz4

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2021, 12:37:41 pm »
Interesting. I've got a Clog krab that I use for exactly the same purpose, and it's even older than yours. One end is through some braided cord, the other has a plastic clip going into it. It's been in use (hanging on a concrete fence post) for over 3 years and isn't corroded at all. The gate still opoens and closes.

Online mikem

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2021, 12:44:25 pm »
It also depends where it was used (& how it was cared for) beforehand - some areas have high iron content, which will promote corrosion.

Online Tomferry

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2021, 12:46:56 pm »
It’s mad how the layers of the materials have separated like that watch out you don’t get them nasty splinters in your feet under where it was !

Offline SamT

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2021, 02:23:13 pm »
I've jugged up a rope before to find it attached to a very similarly corroded krab,  and later, the spit it was attached to pulled straight out of the hole.   :o

Reckon that was one of the 9 used up there.

Infact - I've found my photo of it.

Usually happens when ali krabs are in contact with steel hangers.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2021, 03:09:58 pm »
Here's one that was steeped in "phreatic acid" for 19 years. It was joining two lines together a long way into Keld Head in the Dales. I kept swimming past and trying to ignore it but in the end cut it out and repaired the line.

Thought it might just be worth pointing out here, to fellow sump floppers, that the use of metal connectors to join lines in underwater caves is maybe not as great an idea as we all once thought. Lines are best joined directly, by looping, as per standard practice nowadays.

Offline Martin Wright

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2021, 03:30:31 pm »
As a fellow "sump flopper"  ;D , I would add that the problem is not confined to karabiners. I once came across a half-full line reel which had been left in a sump for many years. Being made of a combination of steel studding and aluminium plates, it had suffered the inevitable corrosion and, when touched, fell to bits and discharged loads of looped line. Mercifully, the visibility was good and it was easily sorted.
The deepest solace lies in understanding this ancient unseen stream

Offline Mark Wright

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2021, 07:52:35 pm »
Badlad and I were talking about this earlier.

About 30 years ago, he and I climbed a 90m high council incinerator chimney near Nottingham. Our job was to climb it and get it rigged so that in a couple or three weeks time, when the incinerator would be turned off, we could carry out a full internal examination of the stack by rope access.

The incinerator was running when we did the climb, over a couple of days if I remember. The view from 10m from the top was spectacular. We were surprised to see a 10m missile propped up against a wall in some ex-military equipment supplier near the bottom of the chimney. It turned out to be one of the famous Anchor Supplies depots.

We didn't buy the missile as it wouldn't fit on top of our van but Badlad did buy 8000 AG3B flash bulbs. He's probably still got a few left.

Back to the climb. Ropes were attached with Faders Offset D alloy carabiners. These were standard issue for personal rope access kits at the company we worked for.  These were subsequently attached to steel Petzl hangers that we had installed to do the climb. We had chosen alloy carabiners for the climb as they were much lighter than the steel carabiners the company usually issued for rigging purposes.     

The next time we went to the top, no more than 3 weeks later, the Faders carabiners were very badly corroded. Not quite as bad as in the example photos, but enough to always remember not to leave dissimilar metals connected to each other for long periods, particularly at the top of an operational incinerator stack.

I've got a couple of Clog carabiners that are well over 40 years old that still look and operate like new. They would certainly pass a Thorough Examination.

Mark

Offline zzzzzzed

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2021, 11:42:44 am »
There's an interesting video made by DMM about anodising crabs here...


Anodising prevents galvanic corrosion in aluminium crabs.  If you look at the original photo you can see that the gate on the crab is coloured because it has been anodised and hasn’t corroded to the same extent.

They show some similar examples in the video.

Online Fjell

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2021, 01:35:53 pm »
Bare-hulled aluminium boats happily float for decades in saltwater with no issue. It’s when you introduce current from some source you get the problems. Bare aluminium is used for most of the serious boats you can buy for heading out into the sticks. It’s the cheese.

Offline droid

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2021, 04:28:58 pm »
If you want corrosion you should have seen some of the pegs me and a mate ended up clipping on Gogarth  :lol:
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Online cavemanmike

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2021, 08:10:04 pm »
If you want corrosion you should have seen some of the pegs me and a mate ended up clipping on Gogarth  :lol:
That why you should do gogarth trad  ;)

Offline andrewmc

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2021, 11:33:03 pm »
Bare-hulled aluminium boats happily float for decades in saltwater with no issue. It’s when you introduce current from some source you get the problems. Bare aluminium is used for most of the serious boats you can buy for heading out into the sticks. It’s the cheese.

Technically it's not bare aluminium, it's covered in a protective layer of aluminium oxide which forms immediately on contact with air as aluminium is actually very reactive. However, as previously stated, aluminium carabiners are not made of pure aluminium but alloys which are much more susceptible to corrosion (the extra elements, particularly copper, disrupting the protective surface layer).

Online pwhole

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2021, 01:12:38 am »
Found a nice article on the DMM site that goes into it (and anodising) in a little more detail:

https://dmmclimbing.com/Knowledge/August-2011/Anodising

Offline andrewmc

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2021, 08:50:22 pm »
Found a nice article on the DMM site that goes into it (and anodising) in a little more detail:

https://dmmclimbing.com/Knowledge/August-2011/Anodising

It is indeed a nice article. I posted it about 10 posts up :P

(but all good :) )

Online mikem

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2021, 09:00:47 pm »
Found a cave belt buckle that had oxidized today

Offline ogofmole

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2021, 09:50:59 pm »
There was a very interesting talk at a Hidden Earth at least ten years ago on this very subject of mixing alloy and steel componates.

Offline droid

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Re: Old carabiner
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2021, 12:29:58 am »
If you want corrosion you should have seen some of the pegs me and a mate ended up clipping on Gogarth  :lol:
That why you should do gogarth trad  ;)

I'm talking mid 80's on a climb done in the mid 60's and the gear was from that time. Is that 'trad' enough for you?   :lol: :lol:
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