Author Topic: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info  (Read 2834 times)

Offline samh

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2022, 01:41:00 pm »
Can anyone suggest a bunkhouse for a Croesor trip?
I stayed in a nice one at the bottom of the hill somewhere but that was a decade ago so can't remember where it was.

I stayed at http://www.ypengwern.co.uk/ when I went in November, which was fine (although the Drovers fair was on outside at the time, which made parking a bit harder).
I believe Lancashire Climbing and Caving Club have a hut nearby as well.

Online alanw

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2022, 02:03:46 pm »
Can anyone suggest a bunkhouse for a Croesor trip?
I stayed in a nice one at the bottom of the hill somewhere but that was a decade ago so can't remember where it was.

The Lancashire Climbing & Caving Club has a hut in Tanygrisiau. I haven't stayed there in many, many years. A couple of our party stayed there in October, but I didn't hear any comments about it.

https://thelccc.co.uk/club-huts/dan-y-mynydd/

Offline David Rose

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2022, 11:21:12 pm »
A case of COVID in my house meant we had to postpone our planned trip but Paul Cooper and I did it today. Fantastic. And all the gear needed is currently in place and in good condition. A terrific outing.

Offline David Rose

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2022, 11:23:35 pm »
Thanks to everyone who posted useful info.

Online cavemanmike

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2022, 10:03:02 am »
There is a new alternative and spicy start to the route if you can find it  ;) ;)

Offline David Rose

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2022, 10:06:37 am »
Tell me more - where does it start and what does it consist of?

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2022, 11:05:59 am »
Do you want the straight answer or to be teased?
If you look at aerial images, look for a face, 2 round eyes and a square mouth. These are 2 big winding wheels and a shaft 340'




Edit, I'm hoping to have an explore of that in Feb

Edit2:  https://imgur.com/a/PEJrHra
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 11:34:32 am by Cantclimbtom »
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Offline David Rose

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2022, 11:45:40 am »
That sounds interesting! Where would would it join the existing through trip?

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2022, 12:28:47 pm »
As you walk-in along the Croesor haulage adit and pass over the false floor of the main haulage incline (flooded) there is a slight left bend /dog-leg where you can see some winch/engine mountings.

At this point there is a short hand over hand old rope to get past that to a smaller scrappier incline (with the big smoke pipe). As you progress up the incline at what seems the top are heavy iron bars. CRTT turns left there for the first pitch. The incline continues a short way behind the bars (bars installed when it was used as ICI/Cooke's explosive store) and that is the bottom of the shaft.

Originally there was the largest sized Robey portable steam/wining engine at the top of the incline and the smoke went up the shaft. However as the main incline (now flooded) is out of sight of the engine operator, it got moved down the incline (with smoke pipe) so that the operator could see the main haulage incline. The manager at the time (Moses Kellow) gives an account in his autobiography as the chain broke during lowering and it came down the incline but luckily for Moses (who was standing half way up the incline below the engine) it jammed on the wall at half way.

Anyhow the shaft is 340' and coated in many years of soot, so don't wear your finest crisp white caving suit or white dinner jacket discussed in other thread. There was originally a small portal and short adit leading into the shaft at the top and I think that enters 10m???  down, although collapsed at entrance there is some kind of ledge or feature of note just down the shaft. I hear there were spit anchors there but maybe they need replacing. If they are confirmed as old I may be able to put in some 12mm stainless coeur in Feb?  for there you have 100m or a touch less to the bottom.  Nearish the bottom there are tunnels to East and West.  One to West comes out high above the big lake chamber you will have seen to your right when you came in. One to East comes out into the large unstable chamber of first pitch of CRTT and can be used to continue instead of having to slither through the bars at bottom. Unless you are a racing snake (and a thin one at that) they may be a challenge.  I don't know the current condition of anchors there either, can review in Feb some time but if you go before that  feedback from others useful.

What also interests me is the very top. While there are whopper winding wheels to anchor, how easily (or wisely?) they could be used as a pull through is of interest, otherwise someone is going to have to walk back up the side of Moelwyn Mawr to get the rope again
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Offline David Rose

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2022, 12:45:21 pm »
Fascinating.

You'd need a big rope for a pull-through!

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2022, 02:00:47 pm »
Yes...  but I'd hope a short ab from surface the 5 or 10m to the former entrance could be pulled through (or a short rope left if not possible due to edge friction) then an ab down the main shaft from there - maybe again pull through. If there was a bomb-proof anchor at half way (from there) it could be done as a multi-pitch abseil. Not sure if multi-pitch [pull through] abseils are a "thing" in caving, but mountaineering it's a bread-and-butter skill. Sounds a candidate to be done with 2x50m ropes if the route was equipped accordingly?
Thoughts/suggestions/gestures anybody?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 02:10:13 pm by Cantclimbtom »
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Offline Ian P

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2022, 03:06:25 pm »
Quote from: Cantclimbtom

Thoughts/suggestions/gestures anybody?

A fireman’s pole ? :o

Sounds very interesting. A multi pitch belay system would seem the best option if possible. I guess the “stances” would be the critical part. (Number of people on them etc).

A nice project for you  :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 03:19:16 pm by PeteHall, Reason: formatting fixed »

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2022, 03:29:38 pm »
Not sure if multi-pitch [pull through] abseils are a "thing" in caving,

Quite common in France. I guess the nearest thing we have in Yorkshire (without a big ledge being involved), is the Great Aven pitch in Simpson Pot.

Offline David Rose

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2022, 03:36:12 pm »
Multi-pitch pull through abseils are very much a thing in Cantabria - where the 300+ metres shaft of the Coventosa system is broken not by ledges but chains, on which everyone has to hang while the ropes are pulled through. Awkward if a rope gets stuck...

Online cavemanmike

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2022, 05:57:55 pm »
That sounds interesting! Where would would it join the existing through trip?
When you approach the first pitch at the top of the internal chimney go right instead of lef, there's a traverse which takes you to a ledge. Climb up the small incline turn left and traverse a shaft and onto the first of 3 ziplines which also include an electron a traverse and an abseil then you end up at the top of the second pitch. Really good fun. Good look. Ps.
There are some nice artifacts on that route so please take care

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2022, 07:53:45 pm »
Mike, please can you be idiot proof (for my benefit), can you explain that one again please
By internal chimney, do you mean the smoke pipe on the incline and going West?
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Online cavemanmike

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2022, 09:28:51 pm »
Mike, please can you be idiot proof (for my benefit), can you explain that one again please
By internal chimney, do you mean the smoke pipe on the incline and going West?
Yep.
Instead of heading for the first pitch (left of smoke pipe) go right, there you will find a traverse line on your left when you look over the chamber

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2022, 05:42:46 am »
Aahhh... I've seen that line in the past and fancied exploring it, but last time I was taking someone on their first ever underground trip and I don't think he'd have appreciated any diversions. You guys must have been working on the "extension" for some time
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Online cavemanmike

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2022, 07:50:07 am »
Wasn't us that did the new route, it was speedycaver who did the whole thing on his own  :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

Online ChrisJC

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2022, 08:13:00 am »
It's worth noting that getting on / off a rope 85m from the top is quite a challenge on account of the bounce in the rope! We did the abseil straight down from the top, no rebelays, and got off to look in the levels near the bottom.

That was before these new additions to the route were added though.

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Offline Alex

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2022, 08:49:49 am »
I think I walked past that shaft once while walking over the hill from the open quarry bit. I re-call a sheep jumping around the edge and wondered how far it would fall if it slipped now I know!
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Online ChrisJC

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2022, 08:56:20 am »
There are a number of shafts into Croesor, all fatal. Most of them open.

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Offline speedycaver

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2022, 10:28:24 pm »
It's worth noting that getting on / off a rope 85m from the top is quite a challenge on account of the bounce in the rope! We did the abseil straight down from the top, no rebelays, and got off to look in the levels near the bottom.

That was before these new additions to the route were added though.

Chris.

We also done the abseil in one but I did get off to have a look at those levels and yes, it was a bit springy, took a bit of work as Chris has suggested.  As much fun as that shaft it, it is absolutely filthy with soot.  Great fun but a lot of effort for a basic abseil.
I done it just for the sake of doing it but also as a way to access those levels as it isn't particularly easy from the bottom of the shaft.
You need a 110m rope to reach the bottom, more for rigging.  A re-belay at the surface mini adit would work but there are no bolts, or at least nothing I would even hang my coat on.  The two wheels at the top are too far back to do a direct pull through, you would have to use a short rope to get you over the edge.   :thumbsup:

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Croesor - Rhosydd request for info
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2022, 07:24:56 am »
Thanks Speedy, thanks also for your extension work (which I hope to sample in about 5 weeks time).

A particular interest of mine is whether a pull through could be done between the top and surface adit level.
If this doesn't upset anyone...? I'd consider placing unquestionably solid anchor at the surface adit level and possibly another 50m lower.
If the whole thing could be done pull through with a pair of 60m ropes (although I understand the trouble someone could be in if they got a rope stuck and didn't also have a 30m or something in their party :doubt:)
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