Author Topic: Calories burned in 1 hr caving  (Read 1740 times)

Offline domestosbend

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Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« on: April 13, 2018, 02:43:04 pm »
Anyone prepared to guesstimate a rough figure for 1 hr caving - for average pace, fitness, experience, trip. A search reveals this has been discussed before but couldn't see anyone come up with a number. I need to plug it into to my fitness app for my annual (non sustainable)  weight loss plan. Cheers

Online Fulk

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2018, 02:49:52 pm »
I don't know, but could you wear your fitness thingy when caving and measure it directly?

Online maxf

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2018, 02:53:41 pm »
A nights (2/3 hrs) easy digging/ bag hauling was about 300 calories when i tried it on my watch

Offline domestosbend

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2018, 02:54:07 pm »
I haven't got a wrist thingy - perhaps someone who has could nip down a cave for an hour and report back  ::)

Offline domestosbend

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2018, 02:55:27 pm »
That's depressingly low MaxF :-\ 

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2018, 03:08:53 pm »
Depends on a fair few things unfortunately, no one's ever tried to quantify it:

Type of caving - ropework/srt, swimming, climbing, crawling
Body weight
Temperature (this one's more wet vs dry trip)
Intensity of caving - dawdling, running etc.

The trouble with wearing it and using that to measure directly is that uses heart rate and underestimates energy burnt on high intensity (so if you do a lot of climbing/hauling it might underrepresent it a lot).

I think you're best off finding a comparable activity and substituting that in. And by 'substituitable' I mean something that makes you just as tired - you notice once people learn how to cave not only are they stronger but they cave more efficiently and so burn less.

PS My best guess would be 300 per hour for a dryish trip with a bit of climbing going at a comfortable speed.

Offline adam

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2018, 03:11:37 pm »
My guess is that it is so variable, based on the factors you've listed, as to make an average figure almost meaningless. Having said that, if you do want a value, your best bet is probably to pluck a figure from a range of sports for which there are already values, e.g. http://nutristrategy.com/caloriesburned.htm

Why not average:
Climbing hills, carrying up to 9 lbs
Hiking, cross country
Rock climbing, mountain climbing
Walking 3.0 mph, moderate

Based on the trip, you could also throw in:
Loading, unloading car
Rock climbing, rappelling
Scuba diving
Shoveling snow by hand
Carrying heavy loads

Have fun!

Offline domestosbend

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2018, 03:18:46 pm »
300 sounds a reasonable figure - corresponds to equivalent type activities

Online mudman

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2018, 03:52:56 pm »
I seem to remember that caving is supposed to be second only to cross-country skiing. So maybe find cross-country skiing in the list and knock a bit off?  :shrug:

Edit: Just looked it up in the useful list from above. It seems there are a few types of cross-country skiing and even doing that uphill isn't the most energetic (running fast comes out top).

Offline droid

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2018, 04:05:55 pm »
If you're sitting around waiting for people to get up a pitch you'd probably add Calories not use them up... :lol:
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2018, 07:27:10 pm »
I seem to remember that caving is supposed to be second only to cross-country skiing. So maybe find cross-country skiing in the list and knock a bit off?  :shrug:

Edit: Just looked it up in the useful list from above. It seems there are a few types of cross-country skiing and even doing that uphill isn't the most energetic (running fast comes out top).

The cross country skiing I did very intensely over a short period many years ago, mainly in built up area's and fairly level forests was very demanding, a helluva lot more than caving.

Offline royfellows

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2018, 07:39:04 pm »
For burning off calories and keeping super fit, there is nothing like karate, seriously. I keep a kitchen wipe inside the top of my gi for use as a sweat rag. And its not an age thing, I was the same years ago. An all day course I would take a spare gi top to change into.
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Offline Chocolate fireguard

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2018, 08:52:21 pm »
Just thinking about something fairly straightforward like climbing a free-hanging pitch:

An 80kg caver climbing a 10m pitch needs to convert mgh = 80*9.81*10 Joules of energy to Gravitational Potential energy.
That's about 8000J.

4.2J is 1 calorie (small c)    -     if anybody is as old as me and remembers the Mechanical Equivilant of Heat!

The Calories (capital C) dieticians use are kilocalories (1000c) so 1C is 4200J.

That's handy because it means the 8000J is about 2C.

Googleing "efficiency of human body" seems to give values between about 15% and 25%, so taking 20% as about right it means that to produce 2C of useful work you have to burn 10C of food.

Handy again because that's 1C burned per metre climbed (for an average 80kg caver).

So a steady plod out from the bottom of Titan (170m?) means 170C burned, and most SRT cavers will be able to do that in an hour without feeling they are pushing any limits.
I am sure there are lots of hour-long caving and digging sessions that are much more strenuous, and involve much use of arm muscles, awkward stretches, lifting bags etc where you can't get into your stride like you can on a steady rope climb.

I reckon the numbers suggested so far are perfectly sensible.

Offline pwhole

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2018, 09:53:54 pm »
Viewed from the perspective of one Mars bar = 1 full prussick of Titan, you can see why there's so many fatsos.

Offline Graigwen

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2018, 10:28:21 pm »
I did work out a year or so ago that spending a day hauling 3 tonnes of dolomite up a 15m shaft added 441,450J of GPE to the rock. Then there were frictional losses in the pulley system, as well as the unquantifiable inefficiecy of muscles.

No wonder I was eating Snickers bars by the half dozen!

.

Online mikem

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2018, 10:59:47 pm »
Apparently US cavers are hauling more weight, as they reckoned about 500:
http://www.forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=522

But there has actually been research, suggesting above figures are nearer the mark:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5291484/#!po=26.7857

Mike

Offline Rachel

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2018, 09:22:04 am »
I usually put it into my fitness pal as hillwalking, but half the activity time to account for waiting at pitches and general faffing.

Offline Kenilworth

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2018, 11:43:49 am »
Anyone prepared to guesstimate a rough figure for 1 hr caving - for average pace, fitness, experience, trip. A search reveals this has been discussed before but couldn't see anyone come up with a number. I need to plug it into to my fitness app for my annual (non sustainable)  weight loss plan. Cheers

Caving is wildly variable. Averages are hard to come by and useless anyway. Specificity is needed to get any real answer, but since this is for a "weight loss plan" that you intend to abandon shortly I suppose you can enter whatever number you please.

Online chunky

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2018, 12:49:51 pm »

Viewed from the perspective of one Mars bar = 1 full prussick of Titan, you can see why there's so many fatsos.

Hey I resemble that remark........bugger.... resent, I meant resent!

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Offline caving_fox

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2018, 09:18:34 am »
If you're sitting around waiting for people to get up a pitch you'd probably add Calories not use them up... :lol:

Being cold burns extra calories.

I always thought that a decent weekend's caving was a net positive in calories. I probably do 12 hours of caving over the weekend, and certainly be pretty tired sunday night/monday morning.

However then I'd remember the curry on the way down and a 'couple' of social pints Friday night meeting everyone, and the fried breakfast, plus a bit of chocoloate, a huge dinner and a few more 'social' pints, another fried breakfast Sunday morning, and a bit more chocolate to keep me going during the sunday trip and a bit of cake when we got out, and suddenly it didn't seem like I'd been exercising enough!
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Offline 2xw

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2018, 12:20:19 pm »
That plosone paper is very interesting and about as far as you're going to get in terms of estimates. The range was  225–287 kcal/h which is similar to that titan estimate. Experienced subjects had a 5% lower total energy expenditure than the inexperienced ones (I thought it would be more personally).

I did enjoy one of the quotes:
Quote
"Caving is a peculiar recreational activity"

There you go folks. Your odd hobby has been scientifically qualified as peculiar. 

Some other interesting quotes from the paper include:
Quote
These data indicated that cavers had a level of aerobic fitness
higher than that of a sedentary population. Mean BMI was indicative of normal weight in
both genders, even if a non-trivial proportion (50%) of men was overweight

I suspect this may hold for the British caver population as well a the Italians...
The overweight people used 8% more energy.

They concluded that caving is a moderate intensity exercise. It has an average MET (Metabolic Equivalent) of 4.1. For reference, sleeping has a MET of 0.9, running a MET of 9.0. The activity most similar to caving in MET is leisurely cycling (4.0). Sex has a MET of 5.5, but then I do last much longer in P8

I really enjoyed reading this study - I do think there is room for more athleticism in caving and a closer look at energy/nutrition/training etc.

Here's another study about the impacts of long caving trips:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2491995/

Offline pwhole

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2018, 01:02:12 pm »
I don't drink booze at all now, but do eat a lot of sweets and other high-carb foods, but I find it almost impossible to put extra weight on due to regular caving. I do try in winter to add an inch, as I often get cold far quicker than everyone else, partly I suspect to having little body fat and a fast metabolism, but it doesn't last for long, especially when digging is the main activity. I suspect most of the protein I eat just repairs muscle. Doing the Rowter Hole extensions on one chocolate flapjack probably isn't that sensible either, if fat-building is the goal!

Online chunky

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2018, 07:20:19 pm »
I don't drink booze at all now, but do eat a lot of sweets and other high-carb foods, but I find it almost impossible to put extra weight on

B#stard

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Offline pwhole

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Re: Calories burned in 1 hr caving
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2018, 09:19:24 pm »
Sorry, I wasn't boasting - my quasi-hypothermic episodes have forced the early abandonment of several trips due to me shivering uncontrollably - even yesterday. I forgot to bring my Cornish pastie, but I did remember to bring the micro-pick. Clearly my priorities need shifting a little.