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good that the geology maps are easily accessible and open source, in the UK they are harder to access unless you are part of an organisation such as a university.
Diving / Re: Longest single entrance underwater cave in the world?
« Last post by MJenkinson on Today at 12:45:01 pm »
I did consider Cathedral but wrote it off as the survey i found only showed 5km - obviously an old one. Bosh. Do we have a winner?
Idle Chat / Re: Cryptic caves
« Last post by grahams on Today at 12:00:11 pm »
Yep that's the one.
Idle Chat / Re: Cryptic caves
« Last post by thomasr on Today at 11:37:45 am »
snurds hole
Idle Chat / Re: Cryptic caves
« Last post by grahams on Today at 11:10:34 am »
Thanks Jasonc - a heroic anagram  :clap2:

This should be a quickie:

"She runs back old rearrangement (6, 4)"
A Brief Bimble in Belgium - Trou des Furets (Ferret's Hole)
7th of October 2017 (I forgot to write this up until now).

Access issues mean that survey data and cave locations are not openly shared, ultimately this means that the data for many caves has disappeared as paper records have expired/disappeared.
This to me sounds a sorry state of affairs, and I hope that we continue to share information as well as we do in the UK (though we still have things to improve on).

Just to let you know that there are several ways of finding info about caves in Belgium.

-club websites such as ours
-Akwa (atlas du karst Walloniƫ), It can be easily accessed by a geoportal of the goverment. So most of the data is not lost. It is easily and free
  As an example the link towards the area of Hayen were trou des furets is situated.,240450.2742499045,137237.00566728227,137840.2568737847

perhaps you have to add the layer of "Atlas du karst Wallon" by clicking "Catalogue du Geoportal" and then look op the layer.

Trou des Furets is also described on the following pages   (scroll down a bit)  (description page from AKWA, also  accessible via the geoportal)

Caving Chat / Re: Under 18's & Caving FAQ
« Last post by mikem on Today at 09:35:50 am »
The ASCT website is a bit sparse at the moment:

It does have a link to the BCA website - where the headline news is - the closure of Twll Du!

The main Scouting website is a bit more helpful:,407,351

& the local set up, far more user friendly:

Whilst Hampshire has pre-set dates:

Caving Chat / Re: Under 18's & Caving FAQ
« Last post by Leclused on Today at 09:24:25 am »
The challenge is far more about changing hearts and minds than changing club rules.

Perhaps the challenge is for the Nation's caving administration to organise caving youth camps (as many overseas equivalents do on a regular basis) so that children who have tried caving and enjoyed it and wish to learn to become cavers have an opportunity to do so, including a full range of techniques so that when they are old enough to join a Uni/club they can hit the ground running, rather than start as novices.

Here is how it works here in Belgium for the flemish young cavers.

Under the federation (VVS) there is a special group "VVS-jongeren".  This special group is lead by a group of young adults (20-30 year) + some elder ones.  Most of them are certifiate cavers (Brevet B - VVS). They organise around 5 week-ends of caving each year were only young people are allowed. The limit is 12 years but flexible. My youngest son started at the age of 11 because they knew he already had some experience.   

Every two years they also organise a camp of one week in the south of France.

This group of leaders are all volunteers and they come from different cavings clubs.

Some info :
Some pics from their week-ends/camps :

Mendip / Re: The Hunter's Damaged in Serious Crash
« Last post by mikem on Today at 09:09:30 am »
The Miners' Arms crossroads, on the other side of Stock Hill, are a regular accident black spot - it's the only junction I know where the stop signs are before the junction, rather than at it. As the road to Green Ore is shut from there, the diversion takes you past the Hunters' onto the Priddy to Hillgrove road, transferring the problem, although with fewer cars going straight across in either direction.

Caving Chat / Re: Under 18's & Caving FAQ
« Last post by Cap'n Chris on Today at 08:49:59 am »
Millfield School used (perhaps still does) to provide a series of summer camps, with repeated week-long tuition (i.e. same programme each week, over and over, for a month, so lots of children could learn a new activity): I don't believe they did/do one for Caving/Speleology.

Think caving-specific equivalent of a Plas-y-Brenin style college for children. It would need funding but BCA is awash with money, isn't it?, so there's no issue there - the main difficulty will be to break the inertia which seems to paralyse many people.
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