Author Topic: Down and up, look-see of Titan?  (Read 1996 times)

Online Cantclimbtom

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Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« on: September 03, 2021, 08:02:38 pm »
Hi all, this is just a very vague question, after any indications of interest (no specific commitment/date) if any of you mine explorer types ever fancied at some undetermined point a "quick" look at Titan. "Just" down-up to have a look-see.

I was toying with idea of a solo trip to keep simple but struggling with logistical info such as booking/keys etc (not basic topo which is easy to Google) and thought going with one or more others might divide and conquer getting info plus be more generally sociable.

Of immediate consideration are: Freehanging rebelay and 3 long prussics, if those are a concern, err to caution.

Don't take the question too seriously, this is just some vague fishing to see if this is something that interests many others here.
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Online pwhole

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2021, 09:09:06 pm »
Booking info is below - just ring or email Moose to pick up the key:

https://www.peakspeedwell.info/index.php/access-information

I've done it many times, so if you need some more company and the dates work for all of us, I'm happy to trog along.

Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2021, 10:12:56 pm »
I did it, in the down direction only (and exited via Peak Cavern). It is an excellent trip, but I did sh*t myself in Titan itself, even though I never looked up or down!

I know that one 'feed-through' of rope on my stop is about 1meter, so I did that 70 times and then looked about to find myself at pretty much the event horizon. Other than that, eyes shut.

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Offline Brains

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2021, 10:20:49 pm »
Tandem ascent is an option if you are confident, usually used to speed up big alpine climbs. Also reduces the time at the bottom exposed to stone fall ( note the white strike marks at the base!)
Take a really bright lamp so you can look around while catching your breath 😀

Offline Fulk

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2021, 10:27:25 pm »
Hi Tom,

Quote
Hi all, this is just a very vague question, after any indications of interest (no specific commitment/date) if any of you mine explorer types ever fancied at some undetermined point a "quick" look at Titan. "Just" down-up to have a look-see.

I've done Titan as a 'simple' down-and-up trip, and I'd say it's very worthwhile, even if you don't stray far from the bottom of the pitch, as it's so spectacular.

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2021, 07:25:17 am »
Thanks everyone!
Not sure when I can get up to the Peak next, but this definitely sounds very tempting indeed for my next trip, probably should think about improving jumaring fitness too (hope it to be enjoyable not a punishment)

Thanks especially to pwhole for info and offer to accompany if dates were good, I may take you up on that!
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Offline cavemanmike

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2021, 08:00:17 am »
A pantin is a god send and I would say essential on pitches that size

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2021, 09:49:38 am »
A pantin is a god send and I would say essential on pitches that size
After years of not quite getting round to it, I tried one for first time last weekend. Why why why hadn't I bought one before?

I did it, in the down direction only (and exited via Peak Cavern). It is an excellent trip, but I did sh*t myself in Titan itself, even though I never looked up or down!

I know that one 'feed-through' of rope on my stop is about 1meter, so I did that 70 times and then looked about to find myself at pretty much the event horizon. Other than that, eyes shut.

Chris.
Ha ha! Yes I have before turned my light to ultra low to help focus only on my immediate surroundings and task. Sometimes you need to do what you need to do. I'm sure everyone's been there more times than we'd like to admit ;)
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Online pwhole

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2021, 11:58:44 am »
We took a 12 year-old down there in 2011 or so, and he went right through the system and out of Peak Cavern, if you need any reassurance. Though he did have his eyes shut for most of the drop, to be fair. But if you were planning to climb back up Titan, a short trip around the Far Sump series is essential first, otherwise it's all pain and no gain :)

Offline Chocolate fireguard

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2021, 12:02:42 pm »
Titan, tandem ascent and Pantin. All mentioned.
The 3rd (and last) time I tandemed Titan I was the lead climber and towing a full tackle bag.
The 6mm tackle hauling strop decided to join the main 9mm rope in my pantin.
I found it impossible to sort it out on my own, and my companion on the rope below had to come up just below me and push the bag up each time I took a step.
It would have been a lot quicker if we had done the pitch one at a time!

Cantclimbtom, I think you are into mining, so I am sure you will appreciate the repair work that was done on the entrance shaft a few years ago.
Looking at it also provides a good reason for having a rest.

Online pwhole

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2021, 12:16:37 pm »
Haha, yes, I was sat at the bottom of the entrance shaft on that trip freezing my nuts off waiting for you both to get up. I remember at the time wondering if it was a good idea. Though at least we know Mammut 9mm can take it :)

Offline Fulk

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2021, 12:45:25 pm »
Quote
The 6mm tackle hauling strop decided to join the main 9mm rope in my pantin.
I found it impossible to sort it out on my own, and my companion on the rope below had to come up just below me and push the bag up each time I took a step.

Hmmm, that’s an interesting scenario, CF; the fact that your friend was able to push the bag up implies that the pantin wasn’t immovably jammed and was capable of being moved up the rope, in which case it seems surprising that it wasn’t possible for him/her to undo the pantin’s cam.

Online paul

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2021, 02:19:05 pm »
Also worth bearing in mind it helps if you know the route to the Peak Cavern exit if you decide on a through trip going down Titan and out of Peak Cavern...
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2021, 09:15:25 am »
Titan, tandem ascent and Pantin. All mentioned.
The 3rd (and last) time I tandemed Titan I was the lead climber and towing a full tackle bag.
The 6mm tackle hauling strop decided to join the main 9mm rope in my pantin.
I found it impossible to sort it out on my own, and my companion on the rope below had to come up just below me and push the bag up each time I took a step.
It would have been a lot quicker if we had done the pitch one at a time!

Cantclimbtom, I think you are into mining, so I am sure you will appreciate the repair work that was done on the entrance shaft a few years ago.
Looking at it also provides a good reason for having a rest.
Yes I am always impressed by and enjoy mines (although to be clear, I am no seasoned expert!) I will take a look at the repairs, is that the same as the "lined section" I saw on a Youtube in the middle (?) of P1. To be honest I am completely gob-smacked by all of the digging involved, just reading the Wikipedia page on the boulder chokes shaft digging, initial aiding up etc I am just astonished at the effort. By the time someone has jugged up that far, they probably benefit from examining the repair for a while (not resting, honest!) :)
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Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2021, 09:29:13 am »
We took a 12 year-old down there in 2011 or so, and he went right through the system and out of Peak Cavern, if you need any reassurance. Though he did have his eyes shut for most of the drop, to be fair. But if you were planning to climb back up Titan, a short trip around the Far Sump series is essential first, otherwise it's all pain and no gain :)
Looking at YouTube, I'm impressed by not just your account of accompanying a 12year old, but seeing other examples like
Very pleased that some kids are still getting a taste of adventure since this stuff seems increasingly frowned upon, or at least what is considered by many as acceptable adventure is becoming increasingly less adventurous :(

Unfortunately my eldest (son, 14) is really not keen on anything like this as it doesn't have a touch screen. For example I managed the first 1/2 of Dinorwig "Snakes, ladders and Tunnels" with him last summer as an adventurous jolly - up the snake (I had to 1:3 haul him :( ), down little ab, short squeeze+tunnel then ladders to the miners' canteen. But it all was proving too much for him so we walked down from there rather than go to lost world. The great ladder of Mordor would have given him a nervous breakdown, so decided best not. Definitely can't consider Titan with him that's for sure! But greatest respect to the kids (and their parents) who do!
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Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2021, 02:09:11 pm »
Also worth bearing in mind it helps if you know the route to the Peak Cavern exit if you decide on a through trip going down Titan and out of Peak Cavern...
Yes a through trip is (in my opinion) the gold-standard for Jollies. You feel you've made a journey, you maybe see more.

I'm very concerned that:
1) I have zero knowledge of peak caves or the route (currently)
2)  the 3rd pitch would need to pull-through for that to work and the second pitch rigged in a way the rope could be hauled up from the top of pitch2, that'd mean that only pitch 1 would need repeating and jugging. A quick look at YouTube videos it doesn't suitable as a pull-through route! At least not an obvious candidate
How have people done this in the past, was it as an exchange trip with others keen to jug up Titan (or did it depend on some of the party making an up-down for the benefit of the others?
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Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2021, 02:20:17 pm »
When we did the Titan to Peak through trip, we arranged a guide. I think we would have found our way, but it was much easier with a guide.

We left Titan rigged, with the intention of going back the next day to retrieve the ropes. However somebody else retrieved them for us and brought them back to the TSG where we were staying. I for one was very grateful!

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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2021, 05:21:06 pm »
Also worth bearing in mind it helps if you know the route to the Peak Cavern exit if you decide on a through trip going down Titan and out of Peak Cavern...
Yes a through trip is (in my opinion) the gold-standard for Jollies. You feel you've made a journey, you maybe see more.

I'm very concerned that:
1) I have zero knowledge of peak caves or the route (currently)
2)  the 3rd pitch would need to pull-through for that to work and the second pitch rigged in a way the rope could be hauled up from the top of pitch2, that'd mean that only pitch 1 would need repeating and jugging. A quick look at YouTube videos it doesn't suitable as a pull-through route! At least not an obvious candidate
How have people done this in the past, was it as an exchange trip with others keen to jug up Titan (or did it depend on some of the party making an up-down for the benefit of the others?

Sounds like somebody is getting the cave bug   :lol:
I dont know where I am going, but will know where I am when I get there.

Offline Chocolate fireguard

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2021, 08:04:09 pm »
Also worth bearing in mind it helps if you know the route to the Peak Cavern exit if you decide on a through trip going down Titan and out of Peak Cavern...
Yes a through trip is (in my opinion) the gold-standard for Jollies. You feel you've made a journey, you maybe see more.

I'm very concerned that:
1) I have zero knowledge of peak caves or the route (currently)
2)  the 3rd pitch would need to pull-through for that to work and the second pitch rigged in a way the rope could be hauled up from the top of pitch2, that'd mean that only pitch 1 would need repeating and jugging. A quick look at YouTube videos it doesn't suitable as a pull-through route! At least not an obvious candidate
How have people done this in the past, was it as an exchange trip with others keen to jug up Titan (or did it depend on some of the party making an up-down for the benefit of the others?
Titan can be done as a pull through - I imagine it has been done several times by now - but it needs careful thought and preparation.
The pitches are all long enough to give problems with ropes twisting together, although if you have a non-caving friend on the surface the entrance pitch can be sorted. And it's surprising how much weight is needed to start pulling down on a pitch as long as pitch 2.
The bit from the bottom of pitch 2, down the slope and over the edge to the belays at the top of pitch 3 needs an extra bit of rope.
Probably best left until you have been down a few times.
As well as avoiding getting lost there is the need to know that the bit just before the bottom of JH is not sumped.

I think most people who do the through trip are resigned to some of the party going back down at least to the top of pitch 3 to retrieve the ropes.
It's worth knowing that loose rope at the bottom of that pitch can get caught in the boulders, making it necessary to do the lot!

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2021, 08:06:02 pm »
Exchange trips are usually the way to retrieve the ropes, or going back the next day, as Chris said - or even the same day. Done that a few times but it's really depressing going down to climb back up. At least you don't have to go right to the bottom! Small mercies...

I know the route out, so you'd be fine if I was there. However, if it's a very wet period, the connection passage beteen Far Sump Extensions and the bottom of Leviathan can sump, meaning a bale-out, or more likely, turning back and going back up Titan. So only plan a through-trip when you know it'll be doable! You can ask us locals for up-to-date info.

EDIT - we posted some info simultaneously :)

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2021, 07:47:36 am »
...I know the route out, so you'd be fine if I was there...
Already noted, appreciate the comments! You are on my stalker-list: you can run but you can't hide. I may well knock on your door and ask if you can come out to play ;). Just possibly the very tail end of this month, but I have a personal matter to sort out which currently makes dates way too unpredictable for me to start throwing any around with any confidence.
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Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2021, 08:02:36 am »
Randomish question, if someone did a through trip as a pull through...    has anyone ever used a Beal Escaper in a cave?



I'm not sure about it to be honest, it adds a layer of brow-adrenaline in the trousers that might be a step too far if it is already an adrenaline situation. Just asking "for a friend"
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Online Rob

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2021, 09:19:32 am »
The Beal Escaper has been discussed a little here already:
https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=25117.0
The end is where we start....

Offline AlexR

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2021, 09:26:54 pm »
Titan is a fantastic bit of cave which never gets old - and I've been up and down more often than most.

It is not suitable for a pull-through. It's possible, but it's also possible to poke a honey badger with a pitchfork. The risks and complications in no way justify the benefit, plus you'd have to leave kit behind (i.e. rubbish) which then needs to be cleaned up by someone as Titan is not bolted on P bolts but standard hangers.
[In the interest of full disclosure: I've installed a stainless steel chain Y hang at the top of Titan itself (generously paid for by the Peak Fund) which would make a pull through easier, however its real purpose is to make the high bolts less awkward/ dangerous for the vertically challenged.]

The same really goes for simultaneous prussiking. It takes a fit caver roughly 10-15min to ascend 60m, even if you make that 20-30min for someone taking their time, why risk it for the sake of saving 10min. If you've never tried it, most will find two people on the rope an unnerving experience, the 2nd person moving creates all sort of weird bouncing patterns in the rope.
I've previously had to wait at the bottom for 4 fairly slow cavers to ascend and brought a little stove & hot chocolate in preparation for this, which made the wait much more enjoyable.

If you're keen on a through trip there are many locals who are happy to help, Phil has already put his hand up and I'd be more than happy to show you around Peak/ be a through trip guide, too.

Online pwhole

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Re: Down and up, look-see of Titan?
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2021, 11:55:41 pm »
Considering the breadth of different types of cave passage that you pass through en-route, from dry fossil phreatic (and wet phreatic) to active streamway, through mines and back into cave again, that one trip can count as three or four 'regular' trips - it really has it all. The only issue is 'who goes back to get the ropes afterwards?' There are occasionally people around who actually enjoy this sort of thing (see above), so don't despair. Though as a precaution to avoid the rope-jamming issue, put any surplus rope that's lying on the floor in a bag, or at least a bundle, and tie it up just off the floor :)

 

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