Author Topic: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)  (Read 2792 times)

Offline nearlywhite

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Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« on: July 09, 2021, 01:32:37 pm »
Just a reminder that the deadline for running for elected positions on BCA council is coming up.

https://british-caving.org.uk/council-elections-deadline-monday-26th-july-midnight/

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Rostam
P&I Officer

Offline Badlad

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2021, 02:14:23 pm »
Rostam - a while ago I looked for the minutes of council meetings on the BCA website but couldn't easily find them.  Soon gave up.  For interest, where are they and any committee minutes located.

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2021, 02:54:05 pm »
https://british-caving.org.uk/about-bca/bca-council/official-documents/

About BCA>BCA Council>Official Documents

We're a bit overdue a shuffle of some of the pages as somethings are a bit tricky to find but the ITWG understandably have their hands full.
I've added a feedback form at the bottom of the home page of the website if you find any other issues, proof reading the website is always welcome!
(the link for the form is https://cloud.british-caving.org.uk/index.php/apps/forms/ANdW7s3C9EMjEYSc)

Offline Jenny P

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2021, 12:59:58 pm »
A reminder that the deadline for nominations, proposals, etc. is nearly upon us - it's midnight on Monday, 26th. July.

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2021, 01:08:10 pm »
A further update on what's been submitted to the AGM and who's running:
british-caving.org.uk/agm-update/

In short:
– Rostam Namaghi and Russell Myers both running for Chairman
– Allan Richardson running for Secretary
– Josh White running for Group Member Representative
– Steve Gray running for Training Officer

Here's the title of the proposals

Proposals affecting the constitution:
1. Change Chairman/Chairmen to Chair
2. Section 10.1 Revision proposal
3. Standing Committee and Working Group Overhaul
4. Revisions to Section 6 and Section 8

Proposals NOT affecting the constitution
5. Proposal 5: Update to the Equality and Diversity Policy
6. Proposal 6: Increase Membership Fee

if it entices further reading https://british-caving.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/20210729AGMProposals.pdf

Offline Badlad

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2021, 02:27:09 pm »
Interesting stuff Rostam.  Good luck with the election to Chair. 

Offline Benfool

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2021, 04:09:26 pm »
How can proposals and nominations for the 2021 AGM be closed before the minutes of the 2020 AGM minutes are available? Or indeed most of the 2021 council minutes? How do I know what I should be proposing when I'm not part of the clique and don't know what's been happened over the last 9 months?

I know Covid and all and I'm very grateful for what you all do for British Caving, but come on.....

Also when is the AGM? Its not on the events calendar, its not obvious on the home page and I needed to dig through several news items to find it :)

B

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2021, 05:50:23 pm »
I have requested the draft minutes several times over the last 4 months and was told at the council meeting on the 26th that the executive have a copy, so it seems I'm out of the clique too. I have requested this copy again today and will publish it as soon as I get a copy. You are backed up by clause 6.13 of the constitution for this by the way.

There was a proposal at the Council meeting on Tuesday that stated that we vote to do the AGM the same way as last year (without a copy of the motion that made it possible). I could not vote on this motion for several reasons.

I've dug through my past emails and fished out some of the previous minutes, I've slightly mucked up the table and put them in the past years table with no idea how to move them up so will let Ari know. But they are there now (this is normally done by the secretary but they are still new to the position).

The AGM is on Sunday the 10th of October 2021 and I'll try update the calendar.

Thanks Ben

If you notice anything else missing do let me know.

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2021, 07:44:17 pm »
I used to remember AGM's being held in June or July  :ang:

Quote
8.11) There shall be an Annual General Meeting of the Association which shall be held during the month of June each year or as soon as reasonable thereafter.
:smartass:


Will RM/RN keep AGM's as being in October in weather that people are "more willing" to be inside for long periods of time, or revert back to June and/or July for the sweltering weather which makes people want to finish up faster and get caving/walking/anything but stewing their brains out.  :blink:

Offline JoshW

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2021, 08:04:05 pm »
I used to remember AGM's being held in June or July  :ang:

Quote
8.11) There shall be an Annual General Meeting of the Association which shall be held during the month of June each year or as soon as reasonable thereafter.
:smartass:


Will RM/RN keep AGM's as being in October in weather that people are "more willing" to be inside for long periods of time, or revert back to June and/or July for the sweltering weather which makes people want to finish up faster and get caving/walking/anything but stewing their brains out.  :blink:

There was a vote at council at some point that due to the secretary and chair being new since the turn of the year, the AGM should be a year since the last one, rather than reverting to June/July.

I personally voted against it, as did others, as I didn't see the point in delaying, however the majority of council did. I'll try and find the minutes where this happened in a moment.
All views are my own and not that of the BCA or any clubs for which I'm a member of.


Offline JoshW

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2021, 08:17:21 pm »
https://british-caving.org.uk/documents/council-minutes-feb-2021/

Item 11 :)

someones been revising! Thanks for finding. Couldn't remember if this was one of the minutes that had named votes or grouped. Unfortunately it's grouped in this instance, meaning lower accountability for elected officers.
All views are my own and not that of the BCA or any clubs for which I'm a member of.

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2021, 08:23:28 pm »
Will RM/RN keep AGM's as being in October in weather that people are "more willing" to be inside for long periods of time, or revert back to June and/or July for the sweltering weather which makes people want to finish up faster and get caving/walking/anything but stewing their brains out.  :blink:

I wanted to restore it back to June and also opposed the delay. Guess that means I'll knock a few months off my term if I were to win

RN

Offline Badlad

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2021, 09:06:04 pm »
Does the fact that there are two people standing for chair suggest there are factions within BCA supporting both camps?  I would have thought it prudent for the older incumbent to stand down when a younger enthusiastic moderniser puts himself forward.  Especially when the incumbent only moved up to fill a post left by a resignation.  As Rostam has shown his commitment to BCA and quite some experience over the years as Y&D, P&I officer etc I'd certainly be backing him.

Offline Fishes

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2021, 09:29:15 pm »
I thought that the "modernisers" wanted to make the BCA more democratic. I think that means that both candidates should stand and the members get the chance to choose.


Offline JoshW

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2021, 09:30:22 pm »
I wouldn't want the BCA to be drawn into the image of having infighting (again). I think there are two candidates who both want the role, and hopefully welcome the idea of having 'competition' as much as I welcome having an actual choice of candidates for a change.

I would also like to think that the unsuccessful candidate won't be disheartened and be reluctant to go for another role on council in the future.
All views are my own and not that of the BCA or any clubs for which I'm a member of.

Offline Jenny P

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2021, 11:02:21 pm »
Since both Chairman and Secretary were only coopted into their new posts at the very beginning of 2021, after an unprecedented series of withdrawls and resignations for various reasons (which have been going on since 2019 !) it was probably too much to ask for them to organise an AGM in June 2021, which would have meant starting the preparations 18 weeks before then.  Although it would have been good to be able to revert to June this year, even going for a date at the very end of June would have meant the preparations had to start, according to the current constitution, 18 weeks prior to that date, that is by 7th. February.

Additionally, it seemed likely that the 2021 AGM would have to be held online, as was the 2020 AGM, because no-one could be sure whether a large body of people meeting together would be possible, even as late in the year as October.  It isn't ideal but there is the experience from 2020 to draw on and it was always going to be a steep learning curve after BCA just managed it last year.  However the appropriate constitutional deadlines have been met to enable us to hold an AGM in October 2021 - though maybe they haven't always been communicated as effectively as possible to the members.  However, communication with members has come under a different system this year and seems to be now the remit of the Publications/publicity/information officer rather than the Secretary or Chairman.

The organisation of the AGM would have been far more effective if it had been possible to inform all BCA members direct, by email/facebook/twitter or even an individually targeted Newsletter, of the various deadline dates but, as it isn't yet possible, there is at least the website to rely on.  This isn't infallible because not everyone checks the website every day and various other means have to be used as well - don't forget not all cavers are glued to their mobile phones or frantically twittering to each other all the time; nor does everyone follow online forums.

A lesson possibly to be learned for next year, when the proposal is to revert to a date in June but to accept that the AGM may well be online, is that there should be a clear statement on the website (and on all appropriate forums) for all to see as early as possible: a notification of the date of the AGM itself, together with all necessary deadline dates and all posts up for election.  This may change during the course of the year as people make up their minds not to continue in post for another year, allowing the notification to be amended accordingly; this happened at the last minute this year, some withdrawals not reaching the Secretary after the deadline date for nominations.

My own opinion is that what BCA badly needs is a period of stability so we can stop navel-gazing and get on with working for the members.  There are enough external threats and worries to remind us that BCA needs to put forward a united front on behalf of all cavers.  Therre are a lot of people out there working their socks off to enable cavers to do their thing with the minimum of hassle and BCA should be supporting and backing this in every way possible.

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2021, 07:30:26 am »
Since both Chairman and Secretary were only coopted into their new posts at the very beginning of 2021

Allan's a great guy, and I have to admit my question was a little tongue in cheek.

Still find it hard to believe he can wear shorts and sandals in the depths of winter.

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2021, 04:15:52 pm »
Since both Chairman and Secretary were only coopted into their new posts at the very beginning of 2021, after an unprecedented series of withdrawls and resignations for various reasons (which have been going on since 2019 !) it was probably too much to ask for them to organise an AGM in June 2021, which would have meant starting the preparations 18 weeks before then. 

Or you could look at it as only having to do the 'plug the gap' job for 6 rather than 10 months and reaching stability sooner.

However, communication with members has come under a different system this year and seems to be now the remit of the Publications/publicity/information officer rather than the Secretary or Chairman.

The remit hasn't changed, I've provided a lot of support to the executive over the last year (estimating about 3 to 4 hours a week in addition to my other BCA volunteering) and this has to be ongoing as again they are both new. What has changed is the frequency of communication (which is much greater) and the multiple platforms it has now. Systems are being automated and there has been a strong insistence that multiple people use it so that the organisation has some redundancy if it all goes Pete Tong. Currently it all looks like I'm writing it all, but most of the time I'm just doing what the executive tell me.

Offline PeteHall

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2021, 04:51:06 pm »
My own opinion is that what BCA badly needs is a period of stability so we can stop navel-gazing and get on with working for the members.  There are enough external threats and worries to remind us that BCA needs to put forward a united front on behalf of all cavers.  Therre are a lot of people out there working their socks off to enable cavers to do their thing with the minimum of hassle and BCA should be supporting and backing this in every way possible.

Exactly this Jenny.

This is one of the key reasons expressed a the CSCC AGM against the proposed constitutional changes. There has been so much upheaval in the organisation, that we really need to just settle down for a period of stability so that any changes are properly thought out, not a knee-jerk reaction by a transient executive, that are then changed again after the next round of resignations.

I know the arguments for change and I generally support them, but I do genuinely think that this change will be more successful and have better buy-in if it was coming from a more stable position to start with.

Offline andrewmc

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2021, 09:45:44 am »
Exactly this Jenny.

This is one of the key reasons expressed a the CSCC AGM against the proposed constitutional changes. There has been so much upheaval in the organisation, that we really need to just settle down for a period of stability so that any changes are properly thought out, not a knee-jerk reaction by a transient executive, that are then changed again after the next round of resignations.

I know the arguments for change and I generally support them, but I do genuinely think that this change will be more successful and have better buy-in if it was coming from a more stable position to start with.

I think this is only referring to the Section 10.1 proposals. I think that's a very reasonable argument. Unfortunately the BCA was given a very explicit and overwhelming mandate by the membership at the 2020 AGM to consider a 'new form of words' for Section 10.1 and bring it to this AGM, and we are all servants of the membership, so the BCA didn't really have any choice in this matter.

Offline NewStuff

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2021, 10:10:44 am »
I think this is only referring to the Section 10.1 proposals. I think that's a very reasonable argument. Unfortunately the BCA was given a very explicit and overwhelming mandate by the membership at the 2020 AGM to consider a 'new form of words' for Section 10.1 and bring it to this AGM, and we are all servants of the membership, so the BCA didn't really have any choice in this matter.

Until what is essentially the governing body of the sport can pull it's members into line, it's not fit for purpose. I think most members and prospective members that are looking forward are aware this needs to happen, hence the numbers on the vote. There is absolutely no point having a governing body that can't govern a portion of it's membership because of the actions of a few. I'm aware it's a minority, but that just adds fuel to the fire. Previously hotly contended issues such as the website that were going to absolutely, positively,  precipitate the CSCC and all it members leaving in a huff  ::) have proved to be a storm in a teacup, and now we have a far more professional looking site, and no doubt a much more efficient and easier to work with back-end.

The alternative is to ignore the mandate, stick with what we currently have, and have the membership slowly realise that as an organisation, the BCA not going to move forward... at which point it'll be a slow descent into irrelevance.
Permission? Wassat den?

Offline Badlad

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2021, 01:18:45 pm »
Sorry but I don't buy the period of stability argument.  When has the BCA ever been stable?  Kicking difficult issues down the road, or trying to, has been the go to approach for all the years I've known BCA.  It is usually because a minority, (often a disruptive and vocal group), don't want change or to lose any perceived control.  Huge amounts of volunteer resources are exhausted trying to get anywhere and when eventually something is sorted and changed it rarely has any of the impact those who fought against it thought it would have.  Examples are plain to see in changes to the website, regional funding, anchor policy, access policy, training scheme and removing sentences from the constitution. 

The volunteer resource is hugely valuable to caving but so much of it is wasted.  it would be nice to see BCA working well and together to put into place those issues the democratic process has given it a mandate to develop and to stop trying to find ways of obstructing or delaying those mandates and the process.

Offline Fishes

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2021, 03:19:31 pm »
Until what is essentially the governing body of the sport can pull it's members into line, it's not fit for purpose.

I would argue that the BCA is not and should not be a governing body. The BCA shouldn't be pulling it's members into line but rather changing its position to fall in line with the views of its members.

Offline cavemanmike

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Re: Council Elections – Deadline Monday 26th July (Midnight)
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2021, 05:55:33 pm »
Until what is essentially the governing body of the sport can pull it's members into line, it's not fit for purpose.

I would argue that the BCA is not and should not be a governing body. The BCA shouldn't be pulling it's members into line but rather changing its position to fall in line with the views of its members.

What about bca member clubs not allowing other bca member clubs access to sites, shouldn't bca intervene to make access more inclusive

 

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