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Is it right or wrong to enforce Covid-19 vaccinations on care home workers?

Right to enforce vaccination
Wrong to enforce vaccination
Undecided

Author Topic: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?  (Read 2512 times)

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #75 on: September 20, 2021, 11:47:26 am »
With regards to NHS workers at my wife's trust, she found out yesterday that nearly ALL and that is all in the trust are vaccinated apart from the ones that a Dr has deemed unfit for some reason or another not to be vaccinated .

Paul
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #76 on: September 20, 2021, 11:50:06 am »
Picking up on some general precaution points in the above comments - 1200 scientists wrote to the Lancet in advance of "freedom day" stating that this was a "murderous policy of herd immunity by mass infection". How stupid was it to tell people to stop taking basic precautions on a day and how stupid have people been to follow this? From the village shop "masks preferred" to three large events I have attended recently where very few have worn masks or socially distanced. We have chaos - and a "murderous policy ----".

The "boiling frog" analogy and the use of the mainstream media to manipulate are all too obvious. We will vaccinate the old and vulnerable (but not others, not children) has turned out to be a drive to vaccinate everyone, whatever the efficacy or risks of the vaccines. I recall recently booster doses "not being required" and "being required" in the same day's news! The myth that vaccines protect fully from infection and fully from transmitting Covid has been encouraged and exploited. Having the knowledge that many people do not read or listen past a headline or even bother to seek the news first hand has been very useful in this. 

Science has said that vaccinating 12-15 year olds had "marginal benefits which had to weighed against side effects" so the government formed its own group to find a reason to vaccinate children in this age group. Now we have a nod to side effects by way of one dose (which is quite illogical but logical enough to sound convincing) a dodgy consent form for parents to sign and a threat to manipulate the Law (Gillicks Law) and use peer pressure to gain consent - all of which are obscene in my eyes. It is worth remembering a threatened epidemic (which did not happen and was never going to) in the mid-1990s and mass vaccination to counter it. This turned out to be a deal struck between the UK government and a pharmaceutical company to off-load excess stocks of vaccine (re. Hansard).

On booster doses the scientific advice is that they are not needed, the vaccine would be better employed in other parts of the world, which would limit the spread from these. In addition, giving booster doses will make it more difficult to assess the efficacy of the vaccines. Booster doses have been trailed but now we have the prospect of a trial, within a trial, within the current trial (the whole vaccination programme) as another vaccine is introduced to the mix. It is notable that AZ has quietly been withdrawn with Phizer, Moderna and Novovax substituted.

Returning to the original question, Jabs or Jobs (which is yet another "boiling frog" example) is wrong and I do not how this can be brought in without a change in Employment Law and Informed Consent practice and supporting Law. But it does not apply to NHS staff, many, many of whom have refused to be vaccinated, something we could do well to know more about. 

My comments are neither pro or anti- vaccination. I refused subscribe to conspiracy theories from the outset but when it comes to vaccination passports/ID cards with your full medical history on them and all this could mean I think we should take notice. What I would like is more honesty and more transparency. Do we have shambolic management of the pandemic, is everything being done "on the hoof" or is there a plan? What we should be told is how much money is being made and stands to be made for individuals and political party funds. We know that some members of the government and some of their advisors have vested interest in vaccination and testing - let's have the full picture - and let's have independent advice on what should be done.   

Some interesting point there . I think the AZ is going because it has caused a lot of problems , myself included some of which I still have, my second was the Pfizer with no issues at all.
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Offline Roger W

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #77 on: September 20, 2021, 11:55:37 am »
As far as I can see, there are two different issues here.

One  is whether r not we should get inoculated against Covid. That seems obvious to me - the answer being yes, of course, unless you have some underlying medical condition that makes tour doctor advise against it.

The second is, whether the government should have the power to compel anyone to receive some sort of medical treatment whether they consent or not.  That is a much trickier question.  Should I be compelled to have flu jabs?  Covid jabs?  Vitamins added to my bread?  Fluoride added to my drinking water?  Who knows where it might end?  Sectioning and psychological re-orienting for those who don't agree with the majority/government/official straighteners?  Abortions if tests suggest that the baby might be less than perfect?  Compulsory euthanasia for the over-60's? (That should free up a lot of beds on the NHS, solve the pensions problem, and get rid of all the old fogeys who post on UK Caving...   ;) )

I can understand people objecting to any form of compulsory vaccination on those grounds.
"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline mikem

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #78 on: September 20, 2021, 12:26:10 pm »
People have generally had an adverse reaction to EITHER the first OR second jab, I haven't heard of any cases where it's happened with both.

Offline Fjell

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #79 on: September 20, 2021, 02:11:24 pm »
I had to do a raft of things to keep my job including vaccinations and passing medicals. It's a choice. You can do something else.

I once had to do HIV tests to work somewhere (back in the day when there was no treatment), mull on that one.

All the care home workers at my dads place were vaccinated by last Feb, as were the ones who came into our home. I can honestly do without those who won't, a choice I can make too.

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #80 on: September 20, 2021, 04:50:24 pm »
People have generally had an adverse reaction to EITHER the first OR second jab, I haven't heard of any cases where it's happened with both.

I was so ill ( for months ) with the first AZ vaccine that they deemed it unsafe to proceed with the second AZ, so after a few trips to the hospital I was offered the Pfizer which was fine . Cant wait to see what happens when it comes round to my third    :doubt:
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Offline pwhole

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #81 on: September 20, 2021, 04:54:45 pm »
Weird - I had two AZs and had no side-effects whatsoever on either, other than a slightly sore arm, but then they had stuck a great big needle in it, so it's not surprising that bit hurt. Though I know a couple of people who had to spend a day in bed feeling shit after their first one. I guess everyone's got a different chemistry set.

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #82 on: September 20, 2021, 05:00:46 pm »
Weird - I had two AZs and had no side-effects whatsoever on either, other than a slightly sore arm, but then they had stuck a great big needle in it, so it's not surprising that bit hurt. Though I know a couple of people who had to spend a day in bed feeling shit after their first one. I guess everyone's got a different chemistry set.

Its not the needle that makes you arm hurt its bad vaccine practice blasting the fluid in as fast as they can , they are taught fast needle slow solution, when you have your next one ask them to push it in slow and you wont have any pain. My wife gave me a course of B12 shots and I had no pain whatsoever  :thumbsup:
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Offline pwhole

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #83 on: September 20, 2021, 05:09:27 pm »
When I was in hospital I had to have a new cannula inserted, and the nurse who did it rushed it, and ran off to another ward. Ten minutes later I was chatting to my neighbour and he pointed out that my arm was slowly blowing up - which it was. As big as a bloody golfball in five minutes. She'd missed the vein, and it was just squirting fluid into my muscle. So I pressed my buzzer and got her back to do it again. I can't even remember what solution it was, I was on so many. Antibiotics, painkillers and salt/sugar stuff. Maybe it was all of them. Anyway, she said it would go down in a few hours, and it did, but that was all a bit weird. I've still got a bit of hard vein on the other arm from it all. So squirting a whole dose of vaccine in quickly I could imagine being pretty bad.

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #84 on: September 20, 2021, 06:03:35 pm »
...I do not how this can be brought in without a change in Employment Law and Informed Consent practice and supporting Law.

Sincerely hope it will remain unenforceable because of this.

Global Moderator Comment Topic locked as it's caused enough division already. Let's try to get back to caving chat. :hug:
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 10:38:10 pm by PeteHall »

 

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