UK Caving

WHERE THE CAVES ARE - The Caving Regions => Peak District => Topic started by: Dan on July 09, 2012, 02:19:40 pm

Title: Doom
Post by: Dan on July 09, 2012, 02:19:40 pm
The new System which has been found by the Credit Crunch expedition has been called Doom. There will be some photo's to follow later but it is very exciting......


Dan
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Judi Durber on July 09, 2012, 03:53:40 pm
 :o   I like it already   :clap2:  well done lads & lassies, especially in this weather   :bow:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Rob on July 09, 2012, 04:03:42 pm
First photo of the new system:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/57/Doom_cover_art.jpg)

:tease:

More to follow later...  ;D
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Goydenman on July 09, 2012, 08:18:18 pm
Where do you get your green suits and that tool for encouraging the diggers to build that pile of spoil?
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Rob on July 09, 2012, 09:47:21 pm
Here's a small collection of snaps from the trip yesterday. There would be more, of probably better quality, had i not been selfish and been running about bagging passage.  ;D

The bendy ladder climb up from the previously known extent of the old mines, up into new, natural phreatic...
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8432/7537822330_6179851f14.jpg)

The boulder choke of doom, digging up through miner's debris....
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8022/7537780346_8ea3586a87.jpg)

An old, woodern wheel barrow...
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8282/7537793080_faf0a549c4.jpg)

Looking down the Temple of Doom!
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7114/7537783512_a89ba21a56.jpg)

One of the many natural avens which needs climbing...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7271/7537777578_45b782e115.jpg)

A higher level passage with a wagon in. This continues behind Dave for >350m...
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8168/7537808552_d1110c67a1.jpg)

In the lower section a large natural streamway enters. This has been crawled allong for >150m and is still wide open...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7249/7537811780_ab2a06de6d.jpg)

Old mine workings
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8145/7537818858_447588fb9c.jpg)

I've uploaded more photos here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rob_eavis/sets/72157630501128436/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rob_eavis/sets/72157630501128436/)

Such a great trip, one of the best for sure. We've now got lots of work to do, hopefully finding a new entrance allowing everyone to get in there and have a run around, as through the current arrangemnt there is no access allowed (not our rules)....
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Mark on July 09, 2012, 09:48:35 pm
An unnoticed tube in the Wet West was discovered by Dave and Rob

On Saturday, Rob and Dave dug for a couple of hours, and broke through into some old pipe caverns, lots of miners artifacts about, which ended at an eyehole down with the sound of a waterfall?

Sunday, we dropped two pitches (about 25mtrs) and ended up in a stream way, upstream went through a high vadose canyon for about 65mtrs, until it started getting a bit tight, followed it downstream past a flat out crawl on the left at roof level, to a waterfall (big stream) coming in at roof level, again on the left, Dan and JT followed this for about 150mtrs before it got a bit low and wet.

15mtrs beyond the waterfall all the water was crashing down a mined out natural rift which we dropped (after diverting the water down a choked rift) for about 25mtrs, which dropped into the top a low phreatic passage with a stream flowing from a sump upstream, (downstream went to a low sump also) Dan lowered the sump upstream and got through into about 20mtrs of low phreatic stuff before it sumped again.

The flat out crawl at roof level was followed for about 10mtrs to a huge fluted aven about 8m diameter and 20mtrs high with a stream cascading down.

Meanwhile Rob had climbed a natural aven into some more pipe caverns at a higher level, and a big natural aven to climb.

Time was running out so we went back up to the eyeholes where Dan spotted a rift on the other side of the pitch again with the sound of water, an easy traverse gained the rift which was followed for about 10mtrs to a window overlooking a huge fluted shaft with a floor about 15mtrs below but we couldn't see the roof due to yet another stream coming in from the top.

So several hundred mtrs of totally natural stuff over 1K of pipe workings, lots of leads to push, 3 big avens to climb and loads of ways off in the pipe workings.

There are at least 4 independent streams in the new stuff and we don't think it goes to the boil up.

There is no access at the moment and what access we have is extremely delicate, so please be patient don't pester the land owners, we may find an easy way in?
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: zomjon on July 09, 2012, 09:59:03 pm
Can't believe I'm asking this, but where is 'Doom'?
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Pipster on July 09, 2012, 10:01:04 pm
WOW! VERY VERY IMPRESSIVE! I can't believe the length/size of it! Utterly amazing - must be the biggest find since Titan? Hugely important too - more understanding of the hydrology and re-discovered mining. It looks and sounds like a brilliant trip! 4 streamways!? Brilliant!

:thumbsup:

Massive congratulations to all involved.  Superb find. :) That must have been (and still is) VERY exciting! :thumbsup: Looks like you'll be very busy over the coming months - there must be a lot more still awaiting discovery down there.

:beer2:

I hope you managed to capture some of the break through on film!  :)

I can't wait to see a survey and where it's heading, and how it fits in with other known swallets, etc.

Good luck in finding a new entrance - so that the rest of us can take a look!

:bow:

Jam/Rich: I think we'll struggle to beat this in down in WICC! LOL. These guys have definitely bagged that Hitch n Hike rope this year! damn. hehe!
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Pipster on July 09, 2012, 10:04:03 pm
I guess this is the Stoney Master Cave then?  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Jam on July 09, 2012, 10:06:39 pm
Friken awesome. Well done folks!!!   :)))   
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Mark on July 09, 2012, 10:11:31 pm
I guess this is the Stoney Master Cave then?  ;D 8)

I suppose it is a master cave of sorts, and its in Stoney, but it is not the one we were looking for this doesn't appear to be the Eyam Edge swallets water
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Pipster on July 09, 2012, 10:24:45 pm
I suppose it is a master cave of sorts, and its in Stoney, but it is not the one we were looking for this doesn't appear to be the Eyam Edge swallets water

Wow, that's so intriguing! :) Any ideas where these streams come from? Do they all end up in one streamway or do they criss cross each other?

Have any of the diggers managed to sleep yet?  :bounce: Hehe! ;)
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: pwhole on July 09, 2012, 10:25:04 pm
Very good work indeed folks ;)
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Pipster on July 09, 2012, 10:29:17 pm
Do you think it's possible the White Rake dig might offer another way in?
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Rob on July 09, 2012, 10:41:40 pm
Do you think it's possible the White Rake dig might offer another way in?
Possibly, but it's ~200m away from the closest place and we're currently heading in the wrong direction. But there's still sooo much stuff to look at, so who knows!
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Dan on July 09, 2012, 10:43:23 pm
All the new stuff found over the weekend is called Doom, it's a bit of a joke between the diggers about some of the interesing situations the diggers found themselves in. Doom is in Mystery Mine Zomjon.
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Dan on July 09, 2012, 10:52:20 pm
The No 1 Priority is to find another way in, the miners have not come in where we have so there must be another entrance, maybe down one of the many mine shafts? 
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Pipster on July 09, 2012, 10:53:16 pm
Do you think it's possible the White Rake dig might offer another way in?
Possibly, but it's ~200m away from the closest place and we're currently heading in the wrong direction. But there's still sooo much stuff to look at, so who knows!
At the rate you guys are finding new stuff down there I suspect it'll connect in a day or two! hehe! If only....

Well, best of luck pushing this further wherever it's heading guys. Hopefully some of those Avens will lead to higher level passages and the possibility of another entrance(s).

Do you still have a two week window for exploration (like last year), or have you managed to secure futher access given the magnitude of the find? Hopefully the latter!
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Pipster on July 09, 2012, 11:03:30 pm
The No 1 Priority is to find another way in,
Great!  :)

The miners have not come in where we have so there must be another entrance, maybe down one of the many mine shafts?
Very interesting to hear that they've come in another way. Are you reffering to shafts you've tallied up on the surface (or know to be in the proximity of), and/or visible shafts heading upwards in the new finds?
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Goydenman on July 09, 2012, 11:05:43 pm
Mega find guys - well done and I can't wait to see the survey and it relationship with everything else. Good luck findig an entrance soon and enjoy pushing all those leads.
WOW WOW WOW........ :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: bograt on July 09, 2012, 11:45:13 pm
I suppose it is a master cave of sorts, and its in Stoney, but it is not the one we were looking for this doesn't appear to be the Eyam Edge swallets water

Wow, that's so intriguing! :) Any ideas where these streams come from? Do they all end up in one streamway or do they criss cross each other?

Or are they all separate leaks from the same perched aquifer just over the anticline? :-\

Well done chaps :beer2:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Tim H on July 10, 2012, 12:13:20 am
Fantastic stuff! Well done to all involved.  :beer2:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: owd git on July 10, 2012, 12:30:29 am
Can't believe I'm asking this, but where is 'Doom'?
Friday jon?
O.G.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: mmilner on July 10, 2012, 01:47:44 am
Doom is in Mystery Mine Zomjon.

Which is not in the latest COPD!  (Along with many other mines...)  :-\ Well done, anyway...
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Rob on July 10, 2012, 07:37:29 am
The miners have not come in where we have so there must be another entrance, maybe down one of the many mine shafts?
Very interesting to hear that they've come in another way. Are you reffering to shafts you've tallied up on the surface (or know to be in the proximity of), and/or visible shafts heading upwards in the new finds?
A number of mined out shafts can be seen to head up in the roof, one with quite a lot of dips coming down, so hopes are high for a surface connection with that one. Also we haven't even got to the end of the main level yet, let alone most of the side passages, so who knows where it may go!?!
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Inskia on July 10, 2012, 09:04:51 am
Well done to everyone involved, you must be dead chuffed at finding this. Can't wait till you can sort out another entrance & some official access so the rest of us can take a look! What a great find  :clap2:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Dan on July 10, 2012, 09:06:48 am
And Drips!
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Roger W on July 10, 2012, 09:25:21 am
Great stuff!   :thumbsup:   :thumbsup:   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: John B on July 10, 2012, 10:30:27 am
Well done to everyone involved, first for getting access for the Expedition (no mean feat) and for the inspired bit of pushing that led to this huge breakthrough.

I can't help wishing we'd found it when we found the first pipe caverns in the 1980s. We had a reasonable access, and at least there was a shaft, alas now covered with a concrete raft and probably knackered.

It does help to explain where all the huge heaps of spar that were being worked in the 1920s came from! I never felt that there was enough space underground to have provided it all.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8422/7541873888_3bda70b672_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: MarkC on July 10, 2012, 10:42:22 am
Can't believe I'm asking this, but where is 'Doom'?

Anywhere around here?

Well done guys  :clap2:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Tony_B on July 10, 2012, 10:57:27 am
Congratulations to everyone involved.

SWCC members take note: see what happens when you apply yourselves to some UK-based cave exploration?

[shameless plug] SWCC Digging Week, 27th - 31st Aug 2012 [/shameless plug]
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: AR on July 10, 2012, 11:03:52 am
Well done everyone, looks pretty good down there and it's just a shame that there isn't another viable point of access at the moment, but if there are other shafts and ore chutes, there must be another point of access somewhere!

I can't help wishing we'd found it when we found the first pipe caverns in the 1980s. We had a reasonable access, and at least there was a shaft, alas now covered with a concrete raft and probably knackered.

It does help to explain where all the huge heaps of spar that were being worked in the 1920s came from! I never felt that there was enough space underground to have provided it all.

 What sort of date do you reckon for the workings John, just going by the photos I'd guess the wagon and barrow date to the 19th century workings at Glebe, but are there any other clues to date? Is the cap over the Glebe shaft under someone's house or in a garden, and if it's the latter would they object to  some excavation?

Oh, and just to reassure the OCC guys, I thought the H&H rules were that to be eligible, a discovery had to be completely untouched so anything t'owd man had got into couldn't be entered for the prize?
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: John B on July 10, 2012, 11:45:18 am
The shaft is under a driveway, and takes the surface runoff from the new estate. There is a manhole (Doug is standing on it in the pic) into a small chamber into which the drains discharge, with two four inch pipes in the floor. The contractors, for some reason known only to themselves, drilled diagonally into the shaft from about 10 metres away after all this was complete, so undoubtedly pushed the ginging in. I think once everything settles down there may be some alternative arrangement, but be patient. I might get to see it all before I'm too old!
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7248/7542130230_9d3f9aae09_m.jpg)
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: John B on July 10, 2012, 12:04:46 pm
Re. dates for the workings. The Pippin Swallow, which was rediscovered during the site development, was buried in the mid 1800s so there may not have been much large scale work before then. By the 1880s there was a thriving industry there, with a headstocks and a big area of washing floors, crushers etc. It probably does date from the late 1800s in that case.
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: paul on July 10, 2012, 12:08:23 pm
Well done and congratulations!
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Rhys on July 10, 2012, 12:22:34 pm
Congratulations to everyone involved.

SWCC members take note: see what happens when you apply yourselves to some UK-based cave exploration?

[shameless plug] SWCC Digging Week, 27th - 31st Aug 2012 [/shameless plug]

I totally endorse what Tony says above!

Well done boys.

Rhys
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Big Jim on July 10, 2012, 12:54:08 pm
John, think me, thee, Pembo n Ian should make sure we have rope and srt kits at the dig tomorrow, just in case we find the connection down to this new stuff.  ;)

Well done The Eldon

J
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Mrs Trellis on July 10, 2012, 01:03:08 pm
Echo all the well-deserved congratulations in ..er.. spades.   :clap2:

How much natural is buried under t'owd man's waste in Derbyshire!
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Pipster on July 10, 2012, 01:09:51 pm
Oh, and just to reassure the OCC guys, I thought the H&H rules were that to be eligible, a discovery had to be completely untouched so anything t'owd man had got into couldn't be entered for the prize?

Actually it could be eligible  ;)

 :read: http://www.hitchnhike.co.uk/peak_district_cave_exploration_award_rules_2011.html (http://www.hitchnhike.co.uk/peak_district_cave_exploration_award_rules_2011.html)

According to the 2011 rules, mine passage can't be included (Rule 5), cave passage can be included if it is previously undocumented (Rule 2) which is the case (as far as I'm aware). However, cavers must be able freely visit the site without any major access restriction (Rule 17) - which currently isn't the case. :(

Obviously it'd be great to win the competition (not sure if we're in the lead or not, and there are other teams/sites which could still find some good stuff, or maybe they already have!? heh! Dunno what has been found in Gateham Swallet etc). Having said that, and in good sportsmanship, I really do hope the diggers find another entrance with access for all.  :)
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Rob on July 10, 2012, 02:07:00 pm
By my rough calculations there is already over 250m of unalterated natural in the new stuff, so i guess we're winning once we get the access sorted........

As for age, i'm no pro at all, but there are candles and wooden wheelbarrows around which suggests to me it's pretty old.

One thing i would say is it is all very tidy, no rubbish laying around anywhere. It's especially tidy when compared with more modern mines which are now abandoned, and I'm sure there's people who who'll rant on about the reasons behind this......
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Jam on July 10, 2012, 02:26:25 pm
Totally agree with your sporting sentiments Pipster!!!   We're in it for the discovery, the rope is just something extra.  :)

Good luck to every digger!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: bograt on July 10, 2012, 03:05:41 pm


Actually it could be eligible  ;)

 :read: http://www.hitchnhike.co.uk/peak_district_cave_exploration_award_rules_2011.html (http://www.hitchnhike.co.uk/peak_district_cave_exploration_award_rules_2011.html)

According to the 2011 rules, mine passage can't be included (Rule 5), cave passage can be included if it is previously undocumented (Rule 2) which is the case (as far as I'm aware). However, cavers must be able freely visit the site without any major access restriction (Rule 17) - which currently isn't the case. :(

Obviously it'd be great to win the competition (not sure if we're in the lead or not, and there are other teams/sites which could still find some good stuff, or maybe they already have!? heh! Dunno what has been found in Gateham Swallet etc). Having said that, and in good sportsmanship, I really do hope the diggers find another entrance with access for all.  :)
[/quote]

Or could it;

"12: What if someone finds some new cave but doesn't want to publicise where it is for some reason?
If the location and details of a new cave are kept secret can't be included. All the details and survey information have to be publicised."  :-\ :-\ :shrug:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: biffa on July 10, 2012, 03:36:59 pm
but it is not the one we were looking for this doesn't appear to be the Eyam Edge swallets water

Bit disappointing then!

Massive congratulations to all involved.
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Rob on July 10, 2012, 03:38:15 pm
Or could it;

"12: What if someone finds some new cave but doesn't want to publicise where it is for some reason?
If the location and details of a new cave are kept secret can't be included. All the details and survey information have to be publicised."  :-\ :-\ :shrug:
Once we have found a suitable entrance all the details will be publicised......Exactly why i said:
Quote
...i guess we're winning once we get the access sorted........
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Pipster on July 10, 2012, 04:16:22 pm
Or could it;

"12: What if someone finds some new cave but doesn't want to publicise where it is for some reason?
If the location and details of a new cave are kept secret can't be included. All the details and survey information have to be publicised."  :-\ :-\ :shrug:

Well that one won't count Bograt, as the location isn't secret! I can't imagine any reason why the diggers won't publish more details and a survey even if a new entrance can't be established any time soon. ;)

PS. Last years exploits in the Wet West were publish in Descent 224. :)
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Big Jim on July 10, 2012, 04:21:58 pm
Well done to everyone involved, first for getting access for the Expedition (no mean feat) and for the inspired bit of pushing that led to this huge breakthrough.

I can't help wishing we'd found it when we found the first pipe caverns in the 1980s. We had a reasonable access, and at least there was a shaft, alas now covered with a concrete raft and probably knackered.

It does help to explain where all the huge heaps of spar that were being worked in the 1920s came from! I never felt that there was enough space underground to have provided it all.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8422/7541873888_3bda70b672_b.jpg)

Which one is you in the picture John? ;D
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Pipster on July 10, 2012, 04:22:36 pm
A number of mined out shafts can be seen to head up in the roof, one with quite a lot of dips coming down, so hopes are high for a surface connection with that one. Also we haven't even got to the end of the main level yet, let alone most of the side passages, so who knows where it may go!?!
Thanks Rob; sounds pretty hopefull for another surface connection. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Hasbeen caver on July 10, 2012, 04:29:51 pm
Well done to everyone involved, first for getting access for the Expedition (no mean feat) and for the inspired bit of pushing that led to this huge breakthrough.

I can't help wishing we'd found it when we found the first pipe caverns in the 1980s. We had a reasonable access, and at least there was a shaft, alas now covered with a concrete raft and probably knackered.

It does help to explain where all the huge heaps of spar that were being worked in the 1920s came from! I never felt that there was enough space underground to have provided it all.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8422/7541873888_3bda70b672_b.jpg)

Which one is you in the picture John? ;D

Also, have you been able to work out where this photo was taken, John?
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Dan on July 10, 2012, 04:40:15 pm
Right lets get something straight last year this place had a different owner, we do not fully know our position with the new owners yet. If we do find another entrance something will have to be done about the existing one. For the time being we have an arrangement which is really delicate and it would be better for everyone involved if it where not discussed here. The name Mystery mine is for a reason Mark C most cavers know exactly where it is !!!!
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: John B on July 10, 2012, 04:53:14 pm
The picture was taken from about here, but from the top of the hillock which has now gone.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8002/7543635816_f8d5abbc23_m.jpg)
Sad isn't it?

Jim: it was my day off that day.
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Judi Durber on July 10, 2012, 06:22:09 pm
Very sad, not a tree in sight  :(
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Pitlamp on July 10, 2012, 06:54:28 pm
Crikey John, that really is a shame. So all that industrial archaeology fell victim to creeping urbanisation.

By the way, well done folks on a very fine discovery.
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: braveduck on July 10, 2012, 08:26:31 pm
When the urban residents find out whats underneeth their homes there might a few moving out!
Then they might find the values have fallen or worse still ,nobody will lend money on them.
Could be a case of a little bit to much knowlege being dangerous!
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Anon on July 10, 2012, 08:33:33 pm
Here's a small collection of snaps from the trip yesterday. There would be more, of probably better quality
I like the way he calls them snaps and says could have been probably better quality - I'd be most happy with a decent set of "snaps" like that!

Great short climb/traverse and digging efforts, a fine reward.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: bubba on July 10, 2012, 08:54:37 pm
Wow! What a discovery; congratulations to all concerned  :bow:  :beer2:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Speleokitty on July 11, 2012, 06:43:34 pm
Unfortunately it seems that mystery mine has been named on a mine exploration forum. I'm not a member there but have asked Sougher to try and get the name removed.

If anyone here is a member of that forum (OG?) maybe they can do something.
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: droid on July 11, 2012, 07:22:22 pm
There's probably enough info on here for a determined researcher to work out the name.

Maybe if the location was supposed to be 'secret' being a bit more careful with the info might have been useful?
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: NigR on July 11, 2012, 08:07:48 pm
Sounds like an exciting discovery. Well done to all concerned.

However, if you wanted to keep it even just a little teensy-weensy bit secret then perhaps it might have been better not to post it all over a national caving forum the day after you've found it?

Reminds me a bit of when Draenen went in '94 and word got out so fast due to the lack of restraint shown by some of those involved. No internet forums back then but going straight down to Cardiff's main caving shop the following day and telling anyone who would listen exactly what they'd found was certainly the next best thing!
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Blakethwaite on July 11, 2012, 08:23:36 pm
I've hidden it from general view on AN.

Droid has however hit the nail firmly on the head.
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: mmilner on July 11, 2012, 08:47:53 pm
PS. Last years exploits in the Wet West were publish in Descent 224. :)

Ahah, having reread that article, I now know roughly where it is. Pity a housing estate seems to have been built  over some of it... Such is 'progress'.  :( Great pic from John B, btw. Here's hoping for another entrance somewhere...

Wish I could have got up for the expo, but no transport atm...  :(
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Katie on July 11, 2012, 08:52:48 pm
From what I understand it is not that we are trying to keep it secret - if that were the case we would indeed be very silly to put it on UKcaving. We are however just trying to avoid typing the name of the mine so if the new owners do google their mine we don't pop up straight away! That said we do have permission to be there, and we are hopeful of a good relationship with the new owners - as it sounds like they have some favours we could help them out with.....
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: NigR on July 11, 2012, 09:59:20 pm
Yes, I can see that you are not trying to keep the discovery itself secret but having chosen to go down the public route it increases the chances of the actual location being named (as you are discovering).

Don't get me wrong, I certainly admire such an open approach but I just hope it doesn't backfire on you by having an adverse effect on long term access. It's not what I would have done but that's probably due to the fact that I've lived in South Wales too long. Find anything worthwhile down here and the first thing that will happen is that somebody will want to stick a gate on it!

Anyway, I hope things turn out well for you and you find loads more passage (along with another way in).
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: rocky on July 11, 2012, 10:22:31 pm
What a fantastic find.
Well done all.

Title: Re: Doom
Post by: mmilner on July 11, 2012, 10:24:36 pm
Find anything worthwhile down here and the first thing that will happen is that somebody will want to stick a gate on it!

There's nowt wrong with gates, just do them like we do in the Peak, so you just need a Derbyshire Key (ie:- adjustable spanner) to open them.  :)

Stops the general public from entering and falling  down a shaft or whatever, but allows cavers easy access.

Many caves round my main caving area are near public footpaths, so gates are esp. important for the landowners... All can be opened with spanners though... just need to keep the bolts greased so they don't seize up..
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Katie on July 11, 2012, 10:52:23 pm
Well said Mel, Nowt wrong with a gate and Derbyshire key.

However lets not make this thread a debate about gates, we will leave that to the Mendip and South Wales sections of the forum........

 :doubt:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: mmilner on July 11, 2012, 11:06:18 pm
Lol Katie. Fair point. Look forward to some more (great) photos of any new stuff if you have continued access, keep up the good work... Keeps me inspired while I'm not able to get up there...
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: NigR on July 11, 2012, 11:14:55 pm
There's nowt wrong with gates, just do them like we do in the Peak, so you just need a Derbyshire Key (ie:- adjustable spanner) to open them.  :)

Stops the general public from entering and falling  down a shaft or whatever, but allows cavers easy access.

Sounds like a good policy.

Right, let's see how long it takes to get all the major systems down here in Wales gated along the same lines!

Sorry, Katie - I'll go now.

(Hopefully this will mean that if your new discovery requires gating once a new entrance is found it will be via this method. That would be fine with me.)
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: cavermark on July 12, 2012, 09:36:43 am
I admire the cooperative spirit in which this discovery has been made, and the openness with which it has been announced. A good example of how cavers can act like grown ups, I'd say.
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Mrs Trellis on July 12, 2012, 10:52:15 pm
This old newspaper cutting may be interesting:-

Sheffield and Rotherham Independent.
3rd. April 1884
Valuable lands, Messuage, Mines, Buildings and Mining Machinery, situate at or near Eyam, in the county of Derby, the property of the Eyam Mining Company
To be sold by auction by Mr. Isaac Ellis, at the Miner's Arms Inn, Eyam aforesaid, on Thursday, the 3rd. April, at Four o'clock in the Afternoon prompt, in the following or such other lots as may be determined upon at time of sale, and subject to the Conditions to be then produced: -
Lot 1: The New Dusty Pits and Old Dusty Pits Lead Mines, and Mineral Possessions, situate between Eyam and Foolow, in the Manor or Mineral Liberty of Stoney Middleton and Eyam. And also all the Piece of Land known as New Dusty Pits, abuting on the Turnpike Road leading from Eyam to Foolow, and forming the site of the surface workings of the said New Dusty Pits Mine, and containing 1 acres or thereabouts, together with the substantial buildings standing thereon, and also all that piece of land, being the site of the surface works of the Old Dusty Pits Mine, together with certain rights of drainage through the Morewood Sough. The Dusty Pits Mines were for many years the most productive in Derbyshire, and a fresh trial might be made at a small outlay.
Lot 2: The Haycliffe Mine and Mineral Possessions, situate in Eyam Edge, in the Manor or Mineral Liberty of Eyam aforesaid, together with certain rights of drainage through the Morewood Sough.
Lot 3: The valuable Lead Mines, known as the Morewood Sough, Cliffe Stile, Glebe Shaft, Brookhead and Little Brookhead, and Old Ladywash, situate in the Manor or Mineral Liberty aforesaid (subject to the Rights of Drainage to be reserved in favour of the proprietors of Lots 1 and 2.
And also the Drawing Engine and Gear, Engine House, Powder Magazine, Dressing and other fixed Machinery on the said Mines. And also all that Piece of Land, containing 417 yards or thereabouts, forming part of the surface workings at the Glebe Mine, in Eyam aforesaid, together with a right of road reserved over Lot 10. The Glebe Mine, for a long period, and until quite recently, yielded a substantial quantity of Ore, and the extensive possessions of this lot offer an unusual opportunity to investors for making further trial in this productive district, for which only a small expenditure of capital would be required.
Lot 4: The valuable and extensive Lead Mines and Mineral Possessions known as the New Ladywash, Shaw Engine, New Engines, Magclough, Stoke Engines, and the rights of the Vendor in Stoke Sough, situate in the Manor or Mineral Liberty of Stoney Middleton and Eyam aforesaid, and in the Manor of Stoke, in the County of Derby.
And also all those the Powerful Pumping Engine, Two Drawing Engines, Horizontal Engine, Two Boilers, Blake's Stone Crusher, Steam Hotchers, and all other Valuable Fixed Machinery and Plant, together with the Engine House and other Outbuildings connected with the said Mines. The Magclough Level extends from the Magclough Plantation to New Engines, and the Stoke Sough extends from the River Derwent, near Stoke Hall, to the westerly part of the Ladywash possessions. The Shafts are of the most substantial character.
Lot 5: The Fielding Gate Mine, situate at the head of Middleton Dale, near Lowney, in the said Manor or Mineral Liberty.
Lot 6: The Shining Cliffe Mine, near to the Ball Inn, Middleton Dale, in the said Manor or Mineral Liberty.
Lot 7: A Moiety or equal Half Part of the "Burrs" Mine, situate near the Footroad between Eyam and Foolow, in the said manor or Mineral Liberty.
Lot 8: Thirteen-and-a-half Twenty-Fourth Parts or Shares in the Watergrove United Mines, near Foolow and Middleton Dale, together with such rights as the Vendors posses in the substantial Chimney, Shaft, and Mining Buildings, situate at Watergrove, near Foolow, all which premises are in the said Manor or Mineral Liberty.
Lot 9: Three Closes of Valuable Accommodation Grass Land, situate in Eyam aforesaid, known as Side Cop Pingles, containing 2a. 3r. 7p., abutting on the north in part on the Turnpike Road leading from Eyam to Foolow, and now occupied by the Misses Maltby.
Lot 10: The Plot of Freehold Land, near to the Glebe Mines, in Eyam aforesaid, containing 570 square yards, or thereabouts, with the Offices (formerly a Dwelling House) and other Outbuildings, at present occupied by the Company, (subject and reserving to the owners of the Glebe Mine for the time being a right of road over the westerly portion of the said plot of land).
The whole of the Premises above described will first be offered in One Lot, and if not sold then in the several Lots before mentioned, or as may be determined by the Vendors at the Sale.
For further particulars apply at the Eyam Mining Company's Offices at Eyam, or at 23, Church Street, Sheffield; to the Auctioneers, 19, George street, Sheffield; or to
Messrs. Bagshawe and Hall, Solicitors, 63, Norfolk Street, Sheffield
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Mark on July 15, 2012, 09:30:46 pm
Do you still have a two week window for exploration (like last year), or have you managed to secure futher access given the magnitude of the find? Hopefully the latter!

No thats it for now Pipster, we might get the odd trip now and again but the winch was taken off the shaft today, negotiations continue.
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Jam on July 15, 2012, 10:15:33 pm
Guys that's bad news. I'm guessing all hands will now go to trying to locate a new entrance?
I sincerely hope one can be found, I'd love to take a look. Especially at the old mine workings!

Good luck on it's future  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Doom
Post by: Pipster on July 16, 2012, 09:45:11 am
No thats it for now Pipster, we might get the odd trip now and again but the winch was taken off the shaft today, negotiations continue.

Aww, that's a shame. :(  Hope you've managed to identify some good leads for another way in, and managed to complete all the work you'd hoped to do.

Did you find much more since you announced it?

It'll have to be armchair caving for the rest of us!