UK Caving

WHERE THE CAVES ARE - The Caving Regions => Rest of The World => Topic started by: not_a_climber on March 04, 2019, 08:47:59 pm

Title: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: not_a_climber on March 04, 2019, 08:47:59 pm
I apologise for introducing the B-word to what I'm sure is an otherwise lovely carefree evening for everyone...

Last Wednesday me and Badlad attended a meeting in Nottingham with the aim of elucidating how Brexit may effect outdoor sports, on behalf of the BCA Conservation and Access Officer. This was well attended by other governing bodies including the Ramblers, British Canoeing, the BMC, the Sport and Recreation Alliance and Wildlife and Countryside Link as well as the BCA. Aside from discussing and bemoaning other aspects of Brexit and British politics in general during the course of the meeting, one of the main discussions focused on how Brexit might affect travel to EU countries to carry out our sports. As I'm sure many cavers will be travelling to Europe in the coming months (whether this is to cave, climb, ski or just lie on a beach) I thought it might be useful to provide a summary of the discussion, which was headed by a representative of the Sports and Recreation Alliance.

The following applies from 29th March in the case of a no-deal Brexit:


In the case of a deal being accepted ready for EU withdrawal on 29th March

There will be a transition period so nothing will change immediately. However over time some of the above stipulations may come to apply, especially the rules about driving in the EU, transporting sporting equipment, and insurance.

This information was given by the Sport and Recreation Alliance and I have done my best to report it accurately. However if you are planning on travelling to Europe on or after 29th March it is probably worth going to their website to get more info. They have also created a podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/241221/929407-episode-2-brexit

Additionally, we all know what a shambles British politics is at the minute, so all of this is completely subject to change depending on deal/no deal/no brexit/general election etc etc etc.

...and lets just not think about the Irish border...

Louise Baddeley - SUSS/BCA
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: GoneCaving on March 04, 2019, 09:42:03 pm
...and lets just not think about the Irish border...

Allegedly the Speleological Union of Ireland will be assisting in the installation of a border post in the crawls between Pollnatagha & Pollprughlish. Customs officers will be on the lookout for cavers trying to smuggle Tayto crisps, Barry's tea bags and TK Red Lemonade (northbound) and soda farls (southbound).
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: andrewmc on March 04, 2019, 10:58:46 pm
You've missed the requirement for an International Driving Permit available for £5.50 at a limited number of post offices (I got mine the other day). A 1968 permit will do you for most, but not all EU countries - I think Spain requires one of the older ones (it's £5.50 per permit).

I also need to buy a GB sticker since presumably my EU licence plates no longer count.

That said I phoned my insurance company for a green card the other day and they said to phone closer to my date of travel (just after Brexit)...
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: Stuart France on March 04, 2019, 11:41:59 pm
I’ve done a lot of travel since I was a lad, a long time ago.  To travel anywhere abroad, you always needed a passport with 6 months life left in it - USA, Australia, Asian countries – plus a travel ticket out of your destination country for them to let you into it.  So what’s new?  The only difference then and now is that the UK passport office is super-efficient and can renew one in less than a week for the standard fee.  So you can still get the purple EU model if you are quick!

Before the Common Market, before the European Economic Community, before the European Union, to get into France in the 1960s, for example, you just presented your blue passport at Calais (or equivalent) and they stamped your passport and off you went.  The only change now with the European Union is they scan your passport and the person wearing  the funny hat is on our side of the channel.

I wonder how anyone ever manages to get caving gear into and out of any country beyond Europe?   An expedition to Mexico or Mulu must be near impossible.

I once did a long camping trip overland to the USSR and back taking in a dozen countries.  I had what was called a worldwide travel insurance policy.  I believe they may still be manufactured.  Oh, and no problems at all on any of those borders from people in strange hats as they obliged with stamping my passport in many exciting coloured inks.

An international driving licence used to work everywhere too, and possibly still does.  Getting one can be done at the post office or the AA/RAC with a mere photocopy of your passport and driving licence and a fiver.

Insurance for driving your own car abroad involved a call to your UK insurance company to issue a green card - usually for a small fee unless it was built into the policy from the outset if you set it up as a regular traveller.

Phones?  I buy a local SIM card on arrival.

Stock up on French wine, Italian coffee and Scadanavian bathroom tissues then run for hills folks as the world is about to end.
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: andrewmc on March 05, 2019, 07:30:45 am
An international driving licence used to work everywhere too, and possibly still does.  Getting one can be done at the post office or the AA/RAC with a mere photocopy of your passport and driving licence and a fiver.

International driving permit, not license, and to go everywhere you need three different ones - the 1926, 1949 and 1968 versions.

Quote
Insurance for driving your own car abroad involved a call to your UK insurance company to issue a green card - usually for a small fee unless it was built into the policy from the outset if you set it up as a regular traveller.

EU-wide insurance is currently free (third party only) on any EU car insurance policy.

Quote
Phones?  I buy a local SIM card on arrival.

Which will be much more expensive than using the desk you already have on your phone and won't use the same number, so unless you have a dual-SIM phone you will lose contact for your trip.

Quote
Stock up on French wine, Italian coffee and Scadanavian bathroom tissues then run for hills folks as the world is about to end.

And all the supermarkets are doing just that, at some cost to themselves (and inevitably us)...

The world is not going to end, but it is going to suck. Currently I can grab a passport and drive to anywhere in the EU, know that I have with my EHIC some healthcare sorted, and use my phone's roaming without worry.
After a no-deal Brexit I cannot make spontaneous trips - I have to organise a green card (cost) and an ISO (small cost), get full travel insurance (cost) and potentially worry about customs. In 2021 I will also have to do the EU visa waiver scheme (small cost). Unfortunately as the economy will have tanked by then and the EU risen against the pound, I won't be able to afford any of this.

Never on my life have so many of my rights been taken away.
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: Oceanrower on March 05, 2019, 07:38:48 am
Stuff

Yes, won't it be great to back to a time when you could do all those things without any bureaucracy or applying for bits of paper and so on whatsoever.

Err, hang on...
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: Simon Wilson on March 05, 2019, 08:34:34 am
We could still stay in the EU. What can we do? It seems to be out of the hands of the electorate but it isn't. We can work to make politicians know that the majority do not want it. Don't stay silent. Shout it from the rooftops.

THE MAJORITY DO NOT WANT BREXIT.

Brexit is mainly supported by a small number of ******* and the decent majority can and should stamp on them, their nationalism and their bigotry.
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: Alex on March 05, 2019, 08:59:26 am
Quote
We could still stay in the EU. What can we do? It seems to be out of the hands of the electorate but it isn't. We can work to make politicians know that the majority do not want it. Don't stay silent. Shout it from the rooftops.

THE MAJORITY DO NOT WANT BREXIT.

Brexit is mainly supported by a small number of fascist twats and the decent majority can and should stamp on them, their nationalism and their bigotry.

Recent polls show: 60% remain 40% leave, even given the 5% error of poling the people want to remain.

I am going down to London on the 23rd I am willing to give up a weekend of caving just to stop this madness Simon.  People who know me, know that practically nothing stops me caving, so this proves how strongly I feel on the matter. I suspect a lot more people will be down there than the 700k last time, all my friends who did not bother last time are bothering this time.

As for my own travel plans, I spoke to my insurance but they can't do anything yet for the green cardand I am going to have to take time off work as you have to go in person to the post office (not online) to get the IDP.

I am travelling by ferry so hey at least I can travel, I just won't be able to take my car off the ferry when I get there!

My insurance covers me for world excluding US, rather than just EU so I should still be covered?
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: andrewmc on March 05, 2019, 12:23:51 pm
Interestingly the demographics of the country will have changed since the vote such that you would expect a Remain victory even if absolutely nobody changed their vote. Basically the young mostly voted 'remain', the old mostly voted 'leave', some old people have died and been replaced by young people...
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: RobinGriffiths on March 05, 2019, 01:02:08 pm
Yes, won't it be great to back to a time when you could do all those things without any bureaucracy or applying for bits of paper and so on whatsoever.
Err, hang on...

The delicious irony of swapping the myth of European red tape for actual red tape.
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: JoshW on March 05, 2019, 03:24:24 pm
Wouldn’t it be affect not effect in the title?
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: 2xw on March 05, 2019, 03:35:14 pm
Wouldn’t it be affect not effect in the title?

Que?
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: Fulk on March 05, 2019, 03:39:47 pm
Yes
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: martinb on March 05, 2019, 06:59:20 pm
Wouldn’t it be affect not effect in the title?

Oui, Ja, To be sure.
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: Alex on March 06, 2019, 11:14:17 am
One thing the original poster forgot to mention is the value of the pound dropping even more with a no-deal making it very expensive to travel to the EU as the cost of buying Euros will be sky high. It already costs about £100 more for each 500 Euro then it did before this stupid vote happened. Thanks leavers, when can i get my reimbursement?
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: yrammy on March 06, 2019, 01:11:55 pm
Gone Caving   - that is the very best post on UKCAVING ever.
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: ChrisJC on March 06, 2019, 06:09:24 pm
We could still stay in the EU. What can we do? It seems to be out of the hands of the electorate but it isn't. We can work to make politicians know that the majority do not want it. Don't stay silent. Shout it from the rooftops.

THE MAJORITY DO NOT WANT BREXIT.

Brexit is mainly supported by a small number of ******* and the decent majority can and should stamp on them, their nationalism and their bigotry.

Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. But it would be nice if you weren't offensive about it.

Chris.
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: Alex on March 06, 2019, 08:12:00 pm
How is he being offensive? I assume he's talking about the ERG and I 100% agree with him and would go as far as calling for the lot of them to be jailed for what they have done and are doing to this country.

No-deal Brexit or any deal that does not involve customs union is not legal under the 1998 good friday agreement, the ERG trying to push for no-deal/no customs union backstop are breaking the law, end of and should be jailed for that, what they are doing is betraying this country, destroying the union and possibly bring about civil war in northern Ireland.

May's deal as currently negotiated is legal, it's crap but it's legal with the back stop. The ERG and a lot of other Tories are motivated by greed and as Simon says bigotry and a misplaced idea that nationalism is the be-all and end all regardless of the cost.

So I for one will not rest until this no-deal madness is stopped. Anything that is not us staying closely aligned to the EU is not legal and shame on ERG, UKIP etc, for making people think it was. Shame on Cameron for setting off this nuclear bomb. Oh and Shame on May for lying about attempting to get changes to the backstop, despite knowing that can never happen, just to run down the clock.

Simon is quite right to pour as much Scorn as he likes on these people.
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: PeteHall on March 06, 2019, 08:28:09 pm
Global Moderator Comment This topic was started to discuss the implications of Brexit on EU travel; a subject of interest to many forum users. Please stick to the topic and keep it civil.
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: Simon Wilson on March 08, 2019, 09:30:50 pm
Will Self tells it like it is.
     :lol: :lol: :lol:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/47497183/brexit-will-self-and-mark-francois-in-tv-stare-off (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/47497183/brexit-will-self-and-mark-francois-in-tv-stare-off)
Title: Re: The magic word - Brexit (and how it will effect travel to EU countries)
Post by: RobinGriffiths on March 09, 2019, 12:31:38 am
Francois is a bellend anyway.