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Equipment / Re: Pulley jammer warning
« Last post by Bob Mehew on Today at 07:59:57 pm »
"A simple theoretical analysis indicates that the pulley sees near double the force that is recorded on the load cell due to the mechanical advantage created by this particular set up, see Annex 1."
Apologies, the penny has finally dropped.  But the reason for the pulley seeing double the force is due to the jammer which in arresting the rope generates a force within the system, a highly unusual set up.  My prediction is that the force seen at the bottom end of the rope (and hence by the person) will be the same as that seen by the load cell.

The ones more relevant to the situation in discussion is EN341 (and to a lesser extent EN15151).
EN341 like EN15151, does not specify a peak force limit (except for once only use devices).  (I presume 241 is a typo since EN241 is about petrol.)  Could you specify which clause you are citing from which the 120kg mass comes?  My take is EN341 and EN15151 are only concerned that the device does not break apart under reasonable shock loads and not about limiting the load which could be incurred by the person using the device.
Following the untimely death of Dan Murray, a long standing and respected team member, the Landlord of the Royal Oak in New Mills has negotiated with Robinson's Brewery that every pint of Dizzy Blonde consumed, five pence will go to DCRO in the memory of Dan. The Landlord will equal the amount raised on the beer sales.

This fund raiser will be ongoing for 3 months. It started on the 1st June

If you are in New Mills have a pint of Dizzy Blonde for Dan at the Oak.  :beer2:
Equipment / Re: Pulley jammer warning
« Last post by andrewmc on Today at 07:19:37 pm »
It doesn't really matter what peak force you reach in a drop test (as long as it is below 6kN anyway).

What matters is that if you reach a peak force of 2/3 kN or more on an ascender, I will get very nervy. When you get a peak force of 4kN or more on an ascender, you are into rope damage and failure territory.

You might get a higher impact force on a non-toothed device (be it a Rig or a Grigri or a standard belay plate or whatever) but what you _won't_ get in normal circumstances is rope damage - you will get slippage instead. Any device used for belaying should fail by slipping, not stripping.
Expeditions & Trips Abroad / Re: Belgian caving weekend
« Last post by maxb727 on Today at 06:47:57 pm »
From 20 to 22 September 2019
Caving Days

in the "Collège Saint-Roch" (ASBL Bernardfagne) in Ferrières!

Scheduled D-Day for the Caving Days:

Registrations for the Caving Days start from:
Tuesday 18 June at 8 p.m. via the VVS website

From 20 to 22 September 2019 we welcome you to the Caving Days in the "Collège Saint-Roch" (ASBL Bernardfagne) in Ferrières!

Your registration is more than participation in the weekend. The time of registration and payment also determines the order that is used for drawing up the summons for registering for cave trips.

The payment for your registration must reach the VVS account before 26 June.

Association of Flemish Speleologists - BE17 7343 3250 7521

In other words: those who register and pay the fastest have the greatest chance of visiting their favorite cave.

Practical agreements:

The weekend price is € 55 or € 35 (from 5 - 13 years) in all, without drinks.
This includes: accommodation, 2x breakfast, packed lunch on Saturday, dinner on Saturday and BBQ on Sunday and a supplement on Sunday afternoon.
If you stay in the building you have to bring your sleeping gear, sheets or sleeping bag, you can possibly rent sheets for € 12.50, to be arranged on site.

Arrival on Friday from 5.30 p.m., earlier is not possible because classes are still being taught.

Parking will be indicated, stick to the prescribed places.

Tents will be placed around the football pitch, it is forbidden to drive the car to the football field, not even to unload your gear.

Campers are set up to the right of the building. It could be that part of the planned parking has been taken up by a school activity; do not obstruct the passage.

No food is provided on Friday evening, but you can buy a hot dog.

Registrations for the caves start on Saturday morning from 8 a.m.

The registration for the cave is determined by your registration time and payment (7days after registration), second, minute, hour and day.
The list of registrations is called in groups of 10. To claim your spot, you must be present on site.
The numbers are called in the breakfast room.

Departure to the cave from 9.30 a.m.

Important: We only have access to certain parts of the building, please adhere to that.

Call: would you like to lend a hand ... indicate this on the registration form.

Planning the weekend:

Friday evening
Arrival (possible from 5.30 pm) and registration.

After a hearty breakfast, the registrations for the caves start from 8 a.m.

Cave offer
As always, the most beautiful caves are opened to the cavers of the Caving Days.
Thanks to the local caving clubs of UBS, VVS and Speleo Nederland who make their guides available.

Reception and party meal
After the cave visits, there is a reception in the large courtyard on Saturday evening where we put someone in the spotlight with a Golden Spelerpes and the Doemen Prize is then awarded.
The reception starts at 7 p.m.
After this aperitif we enjoy a festive meal together, this year we opted for stew with fries or a vegetarian meal ... with a nice glass of wine or our own cave beer.

And of course not to forget the tombola.

Followed by: Let’s party!

On Sunday there is a wide range of workshops, films, presentations, some to listen or watch, others to actively participate. Something for everyone’s taste!
The reunion of the UBS anciens starts in the afternoon and there is a tasty BBQ, whether or not vegetarian.
More information at:


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Equipment / Re: Pulley jammer warning
« Last post by glyders on Today at 06:43:07 pm »
(Note Petzl state they use a lanyard of dynamic rope to meet EN 12841.  One has to read the fine print!)
Indeed is does, but that is a rope positioning standard. The ones more relevant to the situation in discussion is EN341 (and to a lesser extent EN15151).These are tests where the device is directly attached to an anchor in belay mode and a load is dropped. EN241 is tested on 10.5mm and 11mm semi-static rope. When a 120kg mass was dropped 60cm onto 4m of paid out rope, the RIG gave an impact force of 5600-5800N and a slippage of 2cm.
Idle Chat / Re: Friday joke - WARNING - contains swearing.
« Last post by andys on Today at 06:11:53 pm »
About a month before he died, my uncle had his back covered in lard. After that, he went down hill fast.
Expeditions & Trips Abroad / Re: Belgian caving weekend
« Last post by maxb727 on Today at 06:07:51 pm »
Cheers Joe. I’m going to be there but yet to figure out how I’m getting there. Can chat in a few weeks when I know more.

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Idle Chat / Re: Wezzit?
« Last post by Simon Beck on Today at 06:04:45 pm »
Sorry to barge in. Came across this one while sifting through the collection. A rarity no doubt. Although the plan had been to capture this feature at the time, I'd forgotten I actually had.
Expeditions & Trips Abroad / Re: Belgian caving weekend
« Last post by mikem on Today at 05:50:13 pm »
Place your bets - will it clash with Hidden Earth?
Sponsors & Competitions / Re: Inglesport Photographic Competition
« Last post by chunky on Today at 05:45:09 pm »
Not for the competition, just couldn't help myself  :bounce:
Mad Phil and Joe Daniels entering the fabulous Miao Room China.

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