Author Topic: ropes  (Read 6366 times)

Huw Groucutt

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ropes
« on: August 27, 2003, 11:43:44 am »
Any advice on how to store ropes? I've heard different people say different things, some say hang them in loops others say its ok to loosely stuff them into a sack.

Huw Groucutt

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ropes
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2003, 12:16:18 pm »
anyone?..............

Offline bubba

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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2003, 12:47:44 pm »
So long as they're not tightly coiled and they're in a cool, dry place out of sunlight, I don't think there will be any difference between your two prospective methods.
=:blubba:=

[ nsfw ]

Huw Groucutt

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ropes
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2003, 01:07:03 pm »
I think they can get all like twisted and kinked if you store them badly.

Offline underground

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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2003, 01:07:08 pm »
Just don't do what I did and forget about a rope, damp in it's tackle bag in your damp cellar, still full of knots and mud. Poor old SamT had to get the Maillons off with a spanner.. Oops  :oops:

Huw Groucutt

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ropes
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2003, 01:09:37 pm »
Quote from: "underground"
Just don't do what I did and forget about a rope, damp in it's tackle bag in your damp cellar, still full of knots and mud. Poor old SamT had to get the Maillons off with a spanner.. Oops  :oops:


haha nice.

Offline Cap'n Chris

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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2003, 08:28:07 am »
On this topic Dave Elliot writes in CNCC Technical Group website:

Ropes are ideally kept in a cool, dark, well ventilated place, loosely coiled and hung on either plastic tubes or un-treated wooden pegs or rope loops. There is no merit in force drying a rope before storing it. Ropes are not harmed if left to dry slowly until the next trip. S. R. T, ropes are designed not to spin under load, but this property leaves them with a tendency to form kinks when twisted. Given that ropes used underground are generally fed loose into a sack and coiled only for storage, it makes no sense to adopt a wrapping method which twists the rope and must later be unwound as the rope is packed. This is the case with the normal mountaineering methods of coiling rope. A more practical method for the caver is to fold the rope into hanks by laying loops across one hand, the finished coil secured with a few turns of rope. It is difficult to hold more than about 40m. of rope in one hand, so a longer rope can be coiled in two halves working from the centre outwards. The whipping is done with the section between the coils. For a very long rope (l00m +) it is necessary to work in stages, laying each coiled section on the ground before continuing with the rest, Handling long lengths of rope (60m.+), the process is made much faster and easier by wrapping the rope around three sturdy pegs fixed to a wall. Apart from a cellar or other dark place, to protect ropes from U/V radiation the rack should be covered with a heavy tarpaulin. Other wise ropes can be stored in lightproof containers such as metal or plastic dustbins.

Anyone un-prepared for this amount of routine maintenance is definitely in the wrong game. A caver's life depends on his rope. Much better to give up caving altogether than to risk killing himself by neglect of his equipment.

 

The CNCC site has more about rope- check it out. :lol:

Offline bubba

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« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2003, 09:10:21 am »
Wow, that's pretty comprehensive advice!
=:blubba:=

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Huw Groucutt

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ropes
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2003, 04:02:53 pm »
Cheers Chris....think that answers my question pretty well!

eyecave

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ropes....
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2003, 06:57:26 am »
........never wash a rope in a washing machine, wouldn't ever consider such a thing!!........at the mouth of the cave rinse the mud or dirt off the rope in the last cleanest water available.....put the muddy coil under the waterfall and let the force of the water flush out the mud......whatever mud is left is ok........don't use any chemicals except those in the water we all have to drink or use to clean a rope......         never dry the rope in the sun, shake it free or slam it against a wall untill the loose water is out and then store it, it'll dry....you can hang it in the wind to speed things, or in your living room........             the rope should be kept very near where you sleep......its my habit to put the new rope in the bed the first nite it is in my house.......my wife is used to it............afterwards, i keep the new rope,with the old, under my bed........here i can hear mice, i know for sure what is happening with the rope for a little more than a third of its lifetime.......        larger coils of rope which are left in a bag should not be stored muddy, it will not hurt the rope!!...it will hurt the user, the next time they use the dried-mud-covered rope when they deal with the dust cloud and slow rappel!!!!!...........stuffing a rope takes extra care..you have to clean, and dry, and store them......i know it sounds the same as a coiled rope right?....thats true except that there are two parts to the stuffed rope........heheheheheh

eyecave

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dave eliot......dis'in coiled rope......
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2003, 02:21:56 am »
one point about ropes wound in coils and ropes stuff in sacks, or packs....coiled ropes do develop twists and turns and bends from being coiled and uncoiled when used in vertical pits....heck, whaddawe expect!,  we twist it one way building the coil from the inside out and then we take it apart from the inside!!!.............but; hanging it in a freefall pit will straighten out the kinks in the ropes and in you!!!..........i think ropes can be best stuffed sometimes and best coiled at others.......fer the usual 150 to 90 foot length (25 to45 meters) or so i think coils are the best way......you can drap them around your torso in the bigger passages and dragg'em behind you in the smaller ones......well coiled they will slither thru tighter spots than the same rope stuffed in a bag.....and, the most important reason for only using coils of rope in caves are in photography........what loooks better, coils of rope around your shoulders or at your feet or a pile of non-descript bags?...HA, no question about that!! :lol:

Huw Groucutt

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ropes
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2003, 12:32:35 pm »
Ropes will last longer if you carry them in a proper bag as its not very good dragging them over sharp rocks and stuff. And if your doing SRT or something you need them in a bag so you can hang 'em below you.

Saying that if i carry a rope (rare in Wales) I normally just loop it around my shoulders as you can see in a picture of me at:

http://www.cavinguk.co.uk/chrisGallery/aggy15_03_2003/normal/HuwStal.jpg

Think thats ok for easy trips but too damaging on long, hard trips.

Offline Cap'n Chris

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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2003, 06:14:54 pm »
Huw, that rope around your neck looks suspiciously like dynamic rock climbing rope to me - if it is you should be aware that it's likely to get ruined and shagged really quickly in a cave environment - the sheath on dynamic is engineered as part of the rope's shock absorbency and hence has a lot of "slip" to it - this allows grit and miniature calcite crystals inside the kernmantle and is insidious and highly damaging; static rope is COMPLETELY different and is the only suitable rope for use underground - of course there's nothing stopping you from using your old, soon to be retired, dynamic rope (or perhaps it belongs to someone else) but you should keep a damn close eye on it and certainly not use it for climbing again, especially if it gets covered in mud etc..

You could just ignore the above, I suppose, but for your own sake you really ought to get some static rope, Huw. Leave the colourful rope on the surface for the poseurs/climbers to ponce around with.

Offline Cap'n Chris

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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2003, 06:22:38 pm »
In fact, on looking at the picture more thoroughly, I guess you're using Lanex Altea but I could be wrong (and probably am!).

Huw Groucutt

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ropes
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2003, 09:16:41 pm »
a.) Its not my rope.....i carry my own ropes in bags.
b) Dynamic ropes do have a place in caving for climbs and things....static is for SRT.
c.) In a very easy (i.e. mainly walking) cave like the one in the photo (Aggy) not much damage is going to be done.
d.) I do have my own static ropes!

If you think you should use static rope in potential high fall factor situations you are wrong.....but then its your choice i guess!

eyecave

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static and dynamic rope in TAG........
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2003, 03:55:18 am »
i have only used dynamic ropes when climbing domes...or some insane attempt to traverse a canyon............in the states we rarely use rebelays....the ropes we choose to use are manufactured to have very tight and tough sheaths...the best selling ropes are the ones that don't require padding....i once participated in a test of a 125 foot caving rope with a 50 percent kevlar sheath(the ultimate bulletproof cut proofing!)......it was freaking slick as heck, six bars jammed allllll the way up and a tight grip.....only one rap on that rope and to the bonfire with it!!......pads are actually used but not very commonly.......all bolting is done to try to ensure the best freefall drop, if there is a sharp spot we will pull up and rety ropes to change wear points.....i sort of pride myself on never using pads in vertical caves ....though i will employ one in a heartbeat!!!...................dragging a rope around does fuzz it up,  it takes a good year of dragging a pmi static rope thru caves to serious fuzz up the beginning and end o the coil of rope, so the beginning and end of the rope does get a bit fuzzy, lends character! ......the combination of water and sharp edges are dangerous and we try to avoid those...........  :shock:

Offline Cap'n Chris

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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2003, 09:59:55 am »
Huw, you are right; judging by your response you are also much more awake to the various issues concerning rope(s) than many others one meets underground - so there's no more to add.

Huw Groucutt

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ropes
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2003, 07:16:55 pm »
Eyecave - It really is easier to use rebelays and deviations you know! you can avoid water and use thinner ropes.

Chris - fair enough, i agree people do need to be aware of the difference between static and dynamic ropes. I have prussiked up a 30 metre dynamic rope *boing boing*, but that was only because it was up an aven which had been freeclimbed the week before, was rigged with a static to descend! Not a reccomended experience! It takes so much longer!

eyecave

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true......
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2003, 05:56:42 am »
Huw, here in TAG the water temp is 52 or better (hot water!!) and a lot of the wet caves have a lot of dry passage.....so,  if you have been drycaving in a wetsuit the pit is a refreshing cool break to the heat of the wetsuit.....if using a drysuit it is simply comfortable....so we don't really try to avoid the water unless it has a very large volume of water that would make it difficult to stand up in.. regularly.......now if the cave is a long one and only has one or two wet drops we will modify that and  rig the pit deliberately dry......most TAG pits are freefall affairs and bolting can be done to accoomadate either scenario the cave explorers desire....the rack is not nearly as well-suited to passing knots as a petzl stop but it is a workable tool but not nearly as adroit......so, then another reason we like the single rope top to bottom affair.... .......(i use a mitchell system to climb, so passing knots is easy coming out of the pit).....i don't have any experience passing knots and using rebelays regularly, only sporatically!!....... :?

eyecave

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thinner ropes!!
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2003, 06:00:40 am »
i almost forgot!!........thinner ropes are cool, once again, using a rack has caused me to probably not use thin ropes nearly as much as i could have if the petzl stop is better adapted to that......i simply don't know......i have used thin rope (on short drops),  fast rappels......yeehaw.....  :roll:

Offline Johnny

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« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2003, 11:45:43 am »
Huw

Arnt you using one of those dodgy FX Ions in that picture :?:  :wink:

By far the best way to store ropes is on the other side of a sump for a few years dangling from a thoroughly rotten karabiner. I makes life really interesting when the sump drops and you have to go and replace it :shock:
Onwards to glory!

Offline seamoose

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« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2003, 01:54:35 pm »
Saw said karabiner last night and there ain't much left of it!!!

Surprised they can rot so quick  :?

J

Huw Groucutt

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Re: ropes
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2003, 06:06:02 pm »
Quote from: "Johnny"
Huw

Arnt you using one of those dodgy FX Ions in that picture :?:  :wink:



DAMN RIGHT!