Author Topic: More media - an alternative view  (Read 9035 times)


Offline jasonbirder

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2016, 09:41:29 am »
Quote
Nigel Taylor, Mendip Cave Rescue's longest serving cave warden, said: "It's a very small element of people up north who want to get the 'right to roam' extended underground and into caves

That's strange a thought a vast majority of UK cavers were polled and the result of the referendum was overwhelmingly in favour nationwide...

But hey, if describing that as a small minority of people 'oop north is journalistic integrity so be it...

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2016, 09:47:12 am »
Thank you, Badlad, for being willing to share an alternative view to your own.
I'm convinced that having a balanced approach to this major issue is the right way forward to ensure a good long term outcome which most cavers will be able to live with. I hope other contributors (at both ends of the discussion spectrum)will follow your example.

Offline Jopo

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2016, 10:02:38 am »
Putting aside my views on CROW I find the article disturbing inasmuch as cave rescue has always, well certainly for the last 46 years in South Wales, kept completely out of caving politics.

I, personally, find the use of cave rescue as a argument of where (or how to cave) a retrograde step which could lead to cave rescue teams to be seen as policemen  and may lesson the almost universal support cave rescue enjoys.

Jopo

Offline PeteHall

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2016, 10:14:41 am »
I like the photo and survey from Swildon's, that well known cave on CRoW land with access restrictions in place to protect it...

...oh, hang on a minute, it isn't on CRoW land, nor is it's access restricted save for a goodwill fee of £1, which can hardly be seen as a conservation measure!  :wall:
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Offline bazdog

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2016, 10:24:24 am »
Whatever the problems are elsewhere in the country, in the Mendips the status quo is working well and I am glad to see that there are no plans for it to be changed."

 If this is the mendip attitude then shame on you all and maybe it's best if you left the bca and did your own thing separately instead of stuffing everyone else

Offline Brains

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2016, 10:25:44 am »
Putting aside my views on CROW I find the article disturbing inasmuch as cave rescue has always, well certainly for the last 46 years in South Wales, kept completely out of caving politics.

I, personally, find the use of cave rescue as a argument of where (or how to cave) a retrograde step which could lead to cave rescue teams to be seen as policemen  and may lesson the almost universal support cave rescue enjoys.

Jopo

I feel this as well.
The article does come across as if it is reporting a conversation down the pub rather than a well researched article

Offline PeteHall

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2016, 10:41:24 am »
Whatever the problems are elsewhere in the country, in the Mendips the status quo is working well and I am glad to see that there are no plans for it to be changed."

 If this is the mendip attitude then shame on you all and maybe it's best if you left the bca and did your own thing separately instead of stuffing everyone else

Not everyone in Mendip shares this attitude.

Perhaps it's the people I choose to associate with, but I generally see much support for CRoW in Mendip, even if this is not reflected by the committee cavers...
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Offline Pitlamp

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2016, 10:53:54 am »
Putting aside my views on CROW I find the article disturbing inasmuch as cave rescue has always, well certainly for the last 46 years in South Wales, kept completely out of caving politics.

I, personally, find the use of cave rescue as a argument of where (or how to cave) a retrograde step which could lead to cave rescue teams to be seen as policemen  and may lesson the almost universal support cave rescue enjoys.

Jopo


You have a fair point Jopo - but when I read the article (fairly quickly) it didn't come across that the caver referred to was speaking for cave rescue. The way I read it the mention of his cave rescue involvement was almost incidental - and perhaps included merely to reveal to the reader that it was one experienced caver's opinion.

I suspect that you and I both very much agree with the long held tradition of cave rescue teams being as impartial as possible, in all aspects of how the caving community conducts its business.

Offline Duncan S

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2016, 11:05:28 am »
I like the photo and survey from Swildon's, that well known cave on CRoW land with access restrictions in place to protect it...

...oh, hang on a minute, it isn't on CRoW land, nor is it's access restricted save for a goodwill fee of £1, which can hardly be seen as a conservation measure!  :wall:
It's the local paper and those images were rolled out with the recent Swildons cave rescue story; a bit of editorial recycling...
One of my images by the way :)

I imagine CROW could apply to the Burrington caves and maybe Cuthberts and Upper Flood as they are all on land frequently accessed by the public.
If I'm right, then Mendip has a mix of CROW access to cave entrances.


Offline bograt

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2016, 12:23:58 pm »
Quote; "We're fighting to keep the legislation as it stands," added Mr Taylor.

We have here an admission from the representative of a regional cave rescue body that they are intent upon scuppering the efforts to implement a mandate laid down by the majority of members of the national caving body.

Quote from the (then) chairman of the British Cave Rescue Council; "We always stay out of caving politics".

I detect a contradiction !!!!!---

At least we now have it confirmed where the 'Elephant in the room' is lurking, this seems to suggest that all Mendip cavers have set themselves up as the righteous defenders of the status quo.

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Offline PeteHall

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2016, 12:28:58 pm »
...this seems to suggest that all Mendip cavers have set themselves up as the righteous defenders of the status quo.
Not ALL Mendip cavers!  :)
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Offline bograt

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2016, 12:49:37 pm »
...this seems to suggest that all Mendip cavers have set themselves up as the righteous defenders of the status quo.
Not ALL Mendip cavers!  :)

I did say its what the article 'seems to suggest'  :thumbsup:, maybe a few 'letters to the editor' are called for by other local cavers?. I don't think it would be apt for letters to be sent from us "very small element of people up north " but maybe some clarification from the national body?
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Offline Maj

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2016, 01:15:46 pm »
The views expressed in the Wells Journal article are not the views of MCR. Those interviewed did not speak in any way from the MCR perspective. The Wells journal have themselves made the connection to MCR.
 
MCR remains neutral with regard to CRoW and has not discussed or have any plans to discus CRoW with regard to whether it should or should not apply to caving.

Dave King,
MCR Warden
Confucius say "War does not determine who is right, war determine who is left."

Offline PeteHall

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2016, 01:36:16 pm »
Quote
But as cavers - and cave wardens - we strongly feel that the sanctity and security of the caves needs to be protected
Correct me if I'm wrong, but "cave wardens" does suggest he is talking on behalf of MCR?
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Offline bograt

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2016, 01:57:55 pm »
The views expressed in the Wells Journal article are not the views of MCR. Those interviewed did not speak in any way from the MCR perspective. The Wells journal have themselves made the connection to MCR.
 
MCR remains neutral with regard to CRoW and has not discussed or have any plans to discus CRoW with regard to whether it should or should not apply to caving.

Dave King,
MCR Warden

Maybe this should be made clear to the rag in question??
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Offline Maj

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2016, 03:10:33 pm »
Maybe this should be made clear to the rag in question??

In hand.

Dave King.
Confucius say "War does not determine who is right, war determine who is left."

Offline bograt

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2016, 03:13:39 pm »
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Offline droid

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2016, 05:24:27 pm »
...this seems to suggest that all Mendip cavers have set themselves up as the righteous defenders of the status quo.
Not ALL Mendip cavers!  :)

Not at all.....
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Offline badger

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2016, 06:39:39 pm »
like the guardian article it is a reporter reporting what they think, maybe they have unfortunately misinterpretated Nigels words when he says a small number want to change the interpretation of crow.
the permit systems do work much better in the south than the dales, this is changing but having been a person frustrated with the dales permit system had my vote arrived (lost in the post office somewhere) would have voted in favour, that's makes another southern caver in favour

Offline droid

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2016, 03:57:03 am »
I did get the form, and might have voted 'yes' had it not been for the viciousness of the reaction to anyone daring to question the Nirvana of CRoW.

Not all those that are labelled as 'anti-CRoW are. Some merely need assurance that their worries about foreseeable problems are going to be recognised.
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Online paul

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2016, 12:29:37 pm »
I see that the article has been updated to point out that comments were made by the individual as a caver and not from the viewpoint of MCR and the photo has been updated.
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Offline Madness

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2016, 12:47:09 pm »
The article is seems to suggest that it's only 'some cavers in the north' want to change things.

Unfortunately whoever wrote the article was fed with selected truths and possibly a few mis-truths. It's a pity that they didn't research both sides of the debate before publishing the article, but I suspect that the reporter was naive enough to trust that they were being told the truth.

Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: More media - an alternative view
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2016, 12:55:15 pm »
The pro-CRoW majority are occupying the moral high ground and the anti-CRoW minority are continuing with dirty tricks and lies.