Author Topic: Why are any Mendip cavers against CRoW?  (Read 1320 times)

Offline Simon Wilson

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Why are any Mendip cavers against CRoW?
« on: April 10, 2016, 08:47:26 pm »
Perhaps I should not have mixed issues.( Crow/ gates ) ... As I seem not to be the only one confused let me make my personal position clear. I am cautious about the implications of crow and very much pro gates on caves with fragile or dangerous environments. That said its best that the thread gets back to topic but I felt I had to make implied positions clear.

What are you confused about? Are you confused about the implications of CRoW?

"I am cautious about the implications of crow and very much pro gates on caves with fragile or dangerous environments." Do you feel a need to express your pro-gates sentiments because you are cautious about the implications of CRoW? It could be read that way. Let's get it crystal clear; CRoW does not threaten the gates.

There are only a 'handful' gated caves on Access Land on Mendip. There is a way to retain those gates. Bob Mehew has offered to do the necessary paperwork.

You can keep your gates, no Mendip cavers would notice any difference so what is the problem?

Offline Bob Mehew

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Re: Why are any Mendip cavers against CRoW?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2016, 09:14:02 pm »
Bob Mehew has offered to do the necessary paperwork.
Hang on a **##ing minute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I am offering help, mainly on pointing people in what I think is the right direction, relevant literature etc; not writing each and every piece of paperwork.  I would be dead by the time the process would be finished if I tried to do it all myself.  And as I have just experienced, there is devil in some of the detail which only those of you on the ground can deal with.

But as a starter for 3, for English caves try reading http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140304112715/http:/www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/RAG%20V4%20for%20website_tcm6-12375.pdf which I understand remains the current NE advice on the process.  In particular, for those worried about keeping a gate on whilst the consultation process winds its merry way along, see page 194 para K.2.9 which states:

"The urgency of the circumstances giving rise to the proposal should not be factor in deciding the time allowed for consultation. Where a relevant authority believes a restriction is needed urgently, it may give a direction restricting access for less than six months, while separately consulting on a related long-term restriction proposal."

There is also the land owner's right to use his / hers Sec 22 Discretionary restriction which can cover up to 28 days (though I accept there are a few niggles with using this - like if the land owner has already used them, see page 166 onward).  Plus of course there is a 5 day period for NE to process them before they start.  But if the discoverers can't keep quite for 5 and a bit days and if Regions don't have decent relationships with local NE staff, then what hope have we?

My understanding is NRW is similar though I expect there will be detail differences.  I hope that quells the concerns that a number of people have expressed. 

Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: Why are any Mendip cavers against CRoW?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2016, 09:34:02 pm »
I thought you'd offered to do it. C'mon Bob you've got loads of spare time.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Why are any Mendip cavers against CRoW?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2016, 09:36:02 pm »
Simon could do it, I suppose.