Caving near badgers

[dougle89]

Whats the rules of caving near badger setts? Also has anyone anecdotes of coming face to face in a tight place with our mash potato loving friends?

 

[Mark]

Fatigue pot in Combs Dale had a resident badger for many years, you will probably give up long before you meet the badger due to the nauseating badger shit everywhere.

 

[Babyhagrid]

A badger lived/lives in a hole that connects to agen allwedd (Ogof gam really) . There was a cave rescue callout for a dog stuck in the badger den with the badger.

 

[cap n chris]

Contemplating the realities of encountering one in close confines should be enough to ensure you'd ditch the trip. I wouldn't care to get anywhere near one, personally. Takes all sorts though.

 

[dougle89]

Contemplating the realities of encountering one in close confines should be enough to ensure you'd ditch the trip. I wouldn't care to get anywhere near one, personally. Takes all sorts though.

My thoughts exactly. I imagine it's similar to blackadders land mine protocol, but more confined.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Although definitely not wanting to disturb badgers in any circumstance, I thought badgers were comparatively timid below ground in contrast to their extreme ferocity above ground.

For example dachshunds were originally bred to flush badgers out of their setts. But obviously in an above ground encounter between a badger and a dachshund, the dachshund is going be shredded

 

[T pot 2]

When helping Dave Gill to look at caves for the publification of the 'Caves of Derbyshire'
In the 1970s. He poked me into a flat out crawl in Blackwell Dale, it went for approx 20'
On the way in there was a further passage on the right.
I got to the end and reversed out, only to look into the passage on the right. I saw two very green eyes and realised it was a badger, the revesrse manoeuvre was expidited to the degree that i left the cave very rapidly and rolled down the bank followed by the badger, which did a complete 180° turn and went back to whence it came.
Dave sat on the bank looking at the farce, he pissed himself laughing.
However he did buy me a pint in the Waterloo inn afterwards.

 

[Leclused]

I once had a close contact with one. I was even able to make a clip

It has been posted here already.

In an other cave then in the clip there was also badger in a side passage. But you were able to see the animal from 4-5m.

The animal was used to it ( I think) and did not move.

 

[hyweldavies]

I've seen more badgers in my own garden in Bristol than I ever have in my whole life. We live in the city not out in the 'burbs, maybe 200 yards from "the Triangle" for anyone who knows Bristol, and up some steps from the A4.
Could have reached out and touched him on one occasion as he was doing his patrol across our garden. A neighbour had had their lawn laid with new turf and in the morning it turned out Mr Badger had rolled up most of the turves to grub for food underneath. They did see the funny side to be fair.


Anyhow, we have plenty of 'em in Bristol, which is maybe of little relevance to the thread

 

[kay]

For example dachshunds were originally bred to flush badgers out of their setts. But obviously in an above ground encounter between a badger and a dachshund, the dachshund is going be shredded

Dachs being German for badger, so literally "badger hound".

 

[ChrisB]

Dachs being German for badger, so literally "badger hound

Thank you. I always wondered what dachshunds had to do with roofs!

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Dachs being German for badger, so literally "badger hound".

Das Stimmt!

 

[ChrisA]

Whats the rules of caving near badger setts? Also has anyone anecdotes of coming face to face in a tight place with our mash potato loving friends?

Legally it's an offence to disturb a badger whilst occupying a sett (let alone dig into a sett), so it depends whether you're sharing an entrance or just in close proximity. Happy to give advice if you want to send me a message.

 

[BikinGlynn]

Legally it's an offence to disturb a badger whilst occupying a sett (let alone dig into a sett), so it depends whether you're sharing an entrance or just in close proximity. Happy to give advice if you want to send me a message.

its also a offence to disturb bats (& any schedule 1 bird for taht matter) but we are all guilty of it I bet.

 

[dougle89]

Legally it's an offence to disturb a badger whilst occupying a sett (let alone dig into a sett), so it depends whether you're sharing an entrance or just in close proximity. Happy to give advice if you want to send me a message.

That's the answer! I think we'd need to widen the mouth of the hole in question, but regardless the landowner has said no exploring due to the affor mentioned black and white speleologists

 

[Brains]

Caving near badgers is healthier than caving behind most people on a Sunday morning, and occasionally on a Saturday evening if you are between them and the pub
The b&w hairy ones are best left alone

 

[Jenny P]

There is a reference in a very old Orpheus Log Book (circa 1950 I think) of a dig in the Manifold Valley where it was believed a badger might be in residence. The concensus was that one should carry out the dig with a loaded shotgun handy in case the badger took exception to the interruption. I don't think anyone had worked out the likely effect of discharging a shotgun in a confined space. (I hasten to add that I don't think the suggestion was ever put into effect.)

 

[Leclused]

Not a badger


Cougar encounter in Cave

 

[mikem]

its also a offence to disturb bats (& any schedule 1 bird for taht matter) but we are all guilty of it I bet.

Only intentional disturbance is illegal.

 

[andrewmcleod]

Only intentional disturbance is illegal.

For Schedule 1 birds:

The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 regulation 1 (5) was amended from 'intentionally' to 'intentionally or recklessly', so reckless disturbance (e.g. climbing when you know there are Schedule 1 nesting or young birds that could be disturbed by your climbing) is also illegal.

For bats:

The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 regulation 9 (4) (again as amended) makes it an offence to 'intentionally or recklessly... he disturbs any such animal while it is occupying a structure or place which it uses for shelter or protection'. So again, reckless disturbance is illegal.

The Conservation of Habitats and Species Regulations 2017 regulation 43 does say 'deliberately disturbs wild animals of any such species' which is probably poor drafting but I'm not a lawyer so wouldn't want to guess what you could get away with (and wouldn't want to anyway - I don't want to disturb bats!).

This legislation has a better definition of disturbance though:
"For the purposes of paragraph (1)(b), disturbance of animals includes in particular any disturbance which is likely—
(a)to impair their ability—
(i)to survive, to breed or reproduce, or to rear or nurture their young; or
(ii)in the case of animals of a hibernating or migratory species, to hibernate or migrate; or
(b)to affect significantly the local distribution or abundance of the species to which they belong."

The important thing is that normal caving in normal caves with the usual care around bats does not, AFAIK, cause disturbance.