cavemanmike
Well-known member
I agree
Croesor Rhosydd - Boat is stuck
- Thread starter rhyst
- Start date
Cosmo Smallpiece
Member
Ah! Thanks for that clarification.
Not one of those many callouts seems to have involved any kind of injury. This is remarkable considering the technical difficulties here compared to say, walking up a mountain.
It seems this group was unaware the boat was stuck. The overdue groups were unaware of the time needed to complete the route. The problem seems to be the lack of a reliable point of information about the route. We no longer have ME or AN. I can't find an up to date route map on the Web. If the default sites for info are the "youth oriented" urbex sites then the focus is on light-painting rather than safety equipment.
I think taking the canoe out and asking people to bring their own inflatable is a recipe for disaster. The thing is going to be too small, too lightweight and get too easily damaged. Falling into the water will become more likely.
Although a sign at the entrance is a good start. I'm concerned that if newbies got that far and realised they couldn't prussik or didn't have helmets, they would just press on because they've already come too far to call it off. It's a long walk up!
carpet
Member
Does anyone know if anything is actually being done/planned about the boat in the short term? Me and a mate (both of us live locally) were wondering about going down with a massive length of blue draw cord and seeing if we could figure out a better way to rig it so it doesnt get stuck, we have a couple of ideas on how this could be done.
cavemanmike
Well-known member
To be fair the pulley system seemed to work pretty well for year’s so possibly a stronger cord. Good luck
carpet
Member
Yea our thoughts were mostly along the lines of beefing up the existing system, so far as we can tell the main issue causing jamming is the pullies, I've had to hang just above the water for a while before now ungumming the one at the bottom of the abseil. Also thinking possibly also adding a guide rope to prevent the canoe drifting right and hitting the protruding rock?
wellyjen
Well-known member
Currently, the pulley system is not in use at all. The boat is paddled to the Rhosydd end by those on board, then pulled back to the Croesor end by a blue polyprop cord (floating). When the boat is drifting about in the lake between trips, the floating slack cord has every chance of getting tangled up and preventing the boat being used. See my reply from July on our experience. No idea what caused the boat to get hung up which lead to the shout, but angle grinding through that bit of old steel cable would remove the snag hazard that caused us problems. There may be others and mitigating as many of these as possible is a good idea as a first step before looking at reinstating the pulley system. Simple to do and would make any modified pulley system more robust too. Using a nylon cord that sinks would make the risk of snagging even higher, so stick with polypropylene.
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cavemanmike
Well-known member
👍
It’s actually not that hard to retrace your steps if you’ve got full SRT kit
wellyjen
Well-known member
Which could still lead to a call out from being overdue, as you not only have the extra time of getting all the group up the pitches, but possibly a walk back over the mountain before a phone is reachable. People should base their call out time on having to retreat back through Croesor and I'm sure many set theirs on the assumption of success.
vanoord
Member
And if you know how to use it!
But I'd add that it's better if one person who does know what they're doing gets out and calls for assistance rather than someone with the wrong kit / inexperienced gets into trouble on the rope. Much better to be sat on a rock for three hours than dangling from a rope. Or, worse still, having fallen.
Mobile phone reception has improved up there in recent years - it's now possible to send / receive text messages from outside the adit at Croesor.
Cantclimbtom
Well-known member
I've taken non SRT'ing novice through it twice - what better place to learn 🤣 (they were closely supervised and I had a 60m dynamic and microtraxion and pulley/haul setup etc, before anyone goes ballistic).
There's an almost irresistible temptation for people to jug right up to the anchors and then find they can't get off the pitch. Without some forthright guidance most novices will do that, despite the fact it's only about 5 metres ascent that "up" pitch catches novices out.
The phantom rope cutter hasn't been at that pitch lately? There was a spate of that and it'd be a bit spicy to climb in wet wellies, but I think doable! (think it was Sam who bolt laddered it in case or repeated rope molesatation?)
Cantclimbtom
Well-known member
As far as I can determine, whether it will stick or not (there is a rock to snag on) depends on the previous party. If they leave the pull rope
Just having a bit more slack in the system would get around that. If it could give enough slack for the canoe to rotate if one end hits the rock, when the rope system is tensioned, the return rope (on left in picture) prevents the canoe from being able to rotate round and return
carpet
Member
The main issue i see with extra slack is it could lead to extra tangles and you just end up replacing one problem with another. We were thinking of going down in wetsuits and having a play, seeing if we could figure out how to set it up so it cant hit the Rock no matter what you try and do. Main idea was a semi tensioned line that the canoe can ride along, and then a separate line to haul it along on
pwhole
Well-known member
If polyprop is only being used because it floats, there must be a better solution - it's awful in every other respect. Getting into the water (safely) in wetsuits to fix this seems eminently the better solution, and a tensioned line above the water with a tether to the line at each end of the boat to stop it rotating would surely work fine.
carpet
Member
So far as i can fathom, that seems to be the only reason polyprop is being used (it is also very very cheap which is another reason it's good). 100% agree that wetsuits in the water is the best way to sort it out - possibly dive fins too as its a fair swim to the other side if you're doing it more than once while rigging?
jasonbirder
Member
For years that was how it was done and i don't remember it being more "call-out" prone than it is now (if anything the reverse)
The humerous photos up-thread show it being done with all matter of "toy" Inflatables...(I've done it myself with an Inflatable Killer Whale and an Action Man Dinghy...both of which were removed rather than being left as in-situ litter) so the necessity for a substantial inflatable is surely over-stated as long as suitable clothing/bouyancy is taken
cavemanmike
Well-known member
That sounds like a good idea
cavemanmike
Well-known member
I do remember going across in a white inflatable armchair that had written on the side of it . This is not a floatation device 🛟 do not use it in any water environment 😂😂😂. But to be fair I did have a life jacket on
@Cantclimbtom Whilst the system is not in use the boat can swing either way, so rope won't remain on opposite side, but may reduce problems if people who know reset it each time. Attaching to both ends would be better for the haul across, but not for getting in & out, although it may be possible if just enough slack included.
