CYF and Daren survey

[MikeK]

Is there any files around that show Daren and CYF on the same survey...including all of Prices dig and the connection to CNWC?

I have one with Daren and CYF without the connection to CNWC.

 

[Stuart France]

Yes the survey on the common room wall inside Whitewalls shows the whole area of potential connections. Some of that is hand drawn so I don't think there is a clean published survey although I'm sure various people unwilling to share details do have it all, the KML and all the rest.

You could go in through Cnwc, turn left at Busmans, then consider the missing links at the far end along the shortest axis with due regard to the post-glaciation surface contouring which is then above you.

OCAF 3rd choke towards Daren's Apocalyse area, or go "straight on and then to the left after [OCAF] Severn Tunnel junction leads to a series of [big] passages ending in boulder chokes [that hardly anyone visits]" as one edition of Caves of South Wales almost says, might be worth a look too for extensions.

 

[MikeK]

Yes the survey on the common room wall inside Whitewalls shows the whole area of potential connections. Some of that is hand drawn so I don't think there is a clean published survey although I'm sure various people unwilling to share details do have it all, the KML and all the rest.

You could go in through Cnwc, turn left at Busmans, then consider the missing links at the far end along the shortest axis with due regard to the post-glaciation surface contouring which is then above you.

OCAF 3rd choke towards Daren's Apocalyse area, or go "straight on and then to the left after [OCAF] Severn Tunnel junction leads to a series of [big] passages ending in boulder chokes [that hardly anyone visits]" as one edition of Caves of South Wales almost says, might be worth a look too for extensions.

May be a controversial comment, but why did no one ever have a go at just forcing through to The promise land from Daren side?

(Unless they did, and I'm just unaware of it).

 

[marsrat]

May be a controversial comment, but why did no one ever have a go at just forcing through to The promise land from Daren side?

(Unless they did, and I'm just unaware of it).

Talk is easier than acting upon it. Happy to brute force it over the summer though if you're up for it.

 

[matthewjc]

May be a controversial comment, but why did no one ever have a go at just forcing through to The promise land from Daren side?

(Unless they did, and I'm just unaware of it).

Hi Mike, I'm sure there was a camp at 'The Kitchen' area with an aim to get through to CyF back late 80s maybe, just trying to think where I read about it - pretty sure it was a team of all female diggers....

 

[Stuart France]

... there was a camp at 'The Kitchen' area ...

Yes there was a camp, and other people removed its abandoned remains years later. I've not seen any digging efforts in The Kitchen area suggesting any Daren-OCAF connection project. I think they simply wanted to make discoveries in Daren and comradeship.

 

[Huge]

May be a controversial comment, but why did no one ever have a go at just forcing through to The promise land from Daren side?

(Unless they did, and I'm just unaware of it).

Hi Mike. The nearest point in Antler Passage to The Promised Land is a heavily calcited grotto on a bend, which obviously hasn't been dug.

I believe Chelsea members dug another corner in Antler Passage, in the 80s, trying to enlarge or reach an enlargement of a side rift.

In the early 90s the team that had been digging the end of Priory Road in Aggy, trying to connect to Daren, took a 'busman's holiday' from those efforts and dug in Antler Passage instead. Obviously the dig at the terminal choke went, the extension being named ... Busman's Holiday. The idea was that a dig here might intercept a passage that might be the northern end of the one that leads to 5th Choke in OCAF. That's probably what Busman's is but there are serious chokes at both ends and, as Stuart has alluded to above, there's a possibility that the hillside containing the linking passage was removed by erosion during the last ice age. There is certainly a low point in the hillside there.

There was a double digging effort on most of these trips, with a dig much lower down Antler also being pursued. This was similar to the Chelsea dig but at a different point. I was a semi-regular member of the Priory Road team but only went on one Antler dig. We dug down in the boulder floor to try to reach the base of a side rift, that looked wider a few metres down. After spending a couple of hours on this dig, we then went to the end, to attack the choke there. The base of the rift was reached on later trips and was forced horizontally for a distance but didn't open up, as far as I know.

There are a couple of high level side passages near the top end of Promised Land, before the major corner in the passage. I believe both of these have been dug at different times by different people. I also believe an aven near the corner has also been climbed(?) but don't know what's at the top.

These are only the efforts I know about and there obviously could have been others. I don't think there's anywhere that's really obvious for a connection between the caves. Could be a case of pot luck and hope!

 

[MikeK]

Hi Mike. The nearest point in Antler Passage to The Promised Land is a heavily calcited grotto on a bend, which obviously hasn't been dug.

I believe Chelsea members dug another corner in Antler Passage, in the 80s, trying to enlarge or reach an enlargement of a side rift.

In the early 90s the team that had been digging the end of Priory Road in Aggy, trying to connect to Daren, took a 'busman's holiday' from those efforts and dug in Antler Passage instead. Obviously the dig at the terminal choke went, the extension being named ... Busman's Holiday. The idea was that a dig here might intercept a passage that might be the northern end of the one that leads to 5th Choke in OCAF. That's probably what Busman's is but there are serious chokes at both ends and, as Stuart has alluded to above, there's a possibility that the hillside containing the linking passage was removed by erosion during the last ice age. There is certainly a low point in the hillside there.

There was a double digging effort on most of these trips, with a dig much lower down Antler also being pursued. This was similar to the Chelsea dig but at a different point. I was a semi-regular member of the Priory Road team but only went on one Antler dig. We dug down in the boulder floor to try to reach the base of a side rift, that looked wider a few metres down. After spending a couple of hours on this dig, we then went to the end, to attack the choke there. The base of the rift was reached on later trips and was forced horizontally for a distance but didn't open up, as far as I know.

There are a couple of high level side passages near the top end of Promised Land, before the major corner in the passage. I believe both of these have been dug at different times by different people. I also believe an aven near the corner has also been climbed(?) but don't know what's at the top.

These are only the efforts I know about and there obviously could have been others. I don't think there's anywhere that's really obvious for a connection between the caves. Could be a case of pot luck and hope!

Would be good to try and determine the height differences between TPL and the closest point (calcite corner) in Antler. Hoping to figure out some way to do this without surveying through both caves.

 

[marsrat]

Would be good to try and determine the height differences between TPL and the closest point (calcite corner) in Antler. Hoping to figure out some way to do this without surveying through both caves.

If you find me a disto, I'll do it for you.

 

[JohnMCooper]

Old fashioned radio location of the 2 points you think are closest?

 

[Huge]

Old fashioned radio location of the 2 points you think are closest?

This was done in the early 90s. I was on the OCAF side, with the transmitting team. Not sure I ever saw the results though!

 

[Joe Duxbury]

When GSS were digging at Priory Road they went through the Severn Beach where there was a strong draft – this was lost later when digging at the end. This may have been blocked with the spoil dumped on the left at the end. The other digs suffered from bad air so could not have been the way on. Find the draught ….

 

[asheshouse]

Would be good to try and determine the height differences between TPL and the closest point (calcite corner) in Antler. Hoping to figure out some way to do this without surveying through both caves.

A grade 5 centreline survey was done in CAF in late 80’s to determine the heights. This was tied back to an OS Benchmark in Clydach Gorge. All the records I had of this are now in Whitewalls. Vaguely recall that a copy of the radio location results is also in the folder of survey data for CAF.

 

[MikeK]

This was done in the early 90s. I was on the OCAF side, with the transmitting team. Not sure I ever saw the results though!

I was kind of hoping with my comment that someone had already done it and the results would emerge

 

[MikeK]

A grade 5 centreline survey was done in CAF in late 80’s to determine the heights. This was tied back to an OS Benchmark in Clydach Gorge. All the records I had of this are now in Whitewalls. Vaguely recall that a copy of the radio location results is also in the folder of survey data for CAF.

These results would be in the library?

 

[asheshouse]

These results would be in the library?

Yes, I guess. There will be various folders with photocopies of original survey notes (80’s stuff) along with survex outputs. I think the CAF notes were in a separate folder and I guess I would have put a copy of the radio location results in the same folder. Was a while ago that I dropped off the data to Whitewalls.

 

[MikeK]

Yes, I guess. There will be various folders with photocopies of original survey notes (80’s stuff) along with survex outputs. I think the CAF notes were in a separate folder and I guess I would have put a copy of the radio location results in the same folder. Was a while ago that I dropped off the data to Whitewalls.

Brilliant that's good to know and will save some effort. I'll get to researching the library this weekend!